Therapeutic Benefits of Alcohol?

[thunkle]

I'm one of those agoraphobics that can't leave my house. I'm literally trapped. However a single drink allows me to go about my daily life without having panic attacks. I've asked many times and doctors won't prescribe benzodiaspine which are supposedly too addictive. That's fine, however what I find crazy is the judgement if I communicate using alcohol therapeutically. Something that works so well and that I don't find addictive. So why don't people talk about therapeutic benefits of alcohol like they do with marijuana. Why is it so taboo?

[lostmyotheracct]

Dawg please don’t do this. I used to suffer panic attacks most anytime I left my house. I self medicated with benzos I bought off Silk Road during the day and at night whiskey. I do not recommend this path for the following reasons:

1. Tolerance. This is the most pragmatic reason. The dose that works today will not have the same effect tomorrow as your body builds a tolerance. This leads to:

2. Physical dependence. If you become physically dependent on alcohol (or benzodiazepines) you will have serious withdrawal effects if you don’t taper. You won’t be able to stop anytime.

3. Mental dependence. Life was worse for me when I had to worry about maintaining my supply of benzos and whiskey. It’s like a chain tying you down.

4. Mental clarity. I find I’m able to think better with no substances.

I found a therapist specializing in panic disorder and it was immensely helpful. I have since had a bit of a regression but went back to therapy and now I’m essentially anxiety free. Or more accurately I know how to manage it and not stop me from doing what I want to do.

Please look into therapy it can really help. You will be investing in a long term skill instead of a short term fix.

[sgillen]

I think people associate “using alcohol therapeutically” with “being dependent on alcohol” which in their experience usually means that person has a huge problem. Take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/cripplingalcoholism/ for some idea.

Basically a lot of people that are dependent on alcohol ruin their entire lives because of it, and they unfairly assume you are in the same category.

At the same time if a standup comic says they take a shot before getting on stage no one bats an eye.

Idk what to do with that or if it’s helpful but there is my 2c

[ajb]

It used to be common to think of alcohol as having positive effects - look at how people talk about it in old films. But some of the effects proved to be a problem in the end. for example, many people took a "nightcap"to help sleep. But it turns out that, while it makes you feel sleepy, it also disturbs the sleep you do get.

One "standard drink" a day, if that's actually all you take, is within recommended limits. But if you need it to function, it does risk building an addiction. And it wouldn't be great to take it at night

I was recently surprised to discover that Nytol herbal elixir, as sold over the counter, is 70% alcohol and the recommended daily dose amounts to 0.7 of a unit of alcohol (about half a US standard drink) which seems quite dodgy to me

[spiffycat]

Not a medical professional,

Have a search about inflammation in your body and especially brain. It can be the cause of your panic attacks..

As moderate alcohol can reduce inflammation. Am against alcohol consumption.. Find other ways..

https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/45/6/747/2499235 https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/06/is-drinking-i...

There isn't a facility for PMs on HN?

[megamike]

I have a small shot glass of anise liquor Anise is a common ingredient in liqueurs and alcohols, such as ouzo and anisette. Anise has many potential health benefits, including:

    Digestive health: Anise can help with bloating, indigestion, heartburn, and low stomach acidity. It's often used in pediatrics to settle the digestive tract. 

Anti-inflammatory: Anise has anti-inflammatory properties. Antimicrobial: Anise has antimicrobial properties. Antioxidant: Anise is a great source of antioxidants. Antispasmodic: Anise can be used as an antispasmodic in high doses. Antiseptic: Anise can be used as an antiseptic in high doses. Expectorant: Anise can be used as an expectorant to increase productive cough. Diuretic: Anise can be used as a diuretic to increase urine flow. Appetite stimulant: Anise can be used as an appetite stimulant. Hormone regulation: Anise can help regulate hormones in females. Depression treatment: Some research suggests that anise seed may help treat depression. Menopause symptom relief: Early research shows that anise can reduce the frequency and severity of hot flashes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricard_(liqueur)

[ivankelly]

The gripe water that parents in Ireland and the UK used to give to babies used to be a mixture of sugar and alcohol. 3.6%. They took that formulation off the market in the 90s though.

[partomniscient]

Because they want their coping mechanism to have less stigmatism attached to it. Whether it be cannabis, benzo's, pornography, humour, frenetically posting to internet forums* - almost everyone has some sort of existential angst coping mechanism, it just comes in many forms and they're not all collectively agreed upon.

>Why is it so taboo?

Because there's a lot of data of bad behaviour as a result of alcohol and lot more other data about physiological changes brought about by long term usage.

Most people aren't even reading the word "therapuetic" in your post before replying because we/they've been conditioned to by society to have a hair-trigger response.

Truth is relative, what's true for you may not be true for someone else and vice versa.

Its mostly everyone being socially conditioned to frown upon alcohol usage whatever the reason, despite being addicted to sugar, technology, porn etc.

Also, don't feel the need to apologise for trying to understand something, but also don't deny the facts out there about long term alcohol dependence.

* Frenetic posters to internet forums can be trying to force/reinforce their (own) views on social correctness, or can be naively trying to help e.g. Mentioning ashwagandha (which I myself have taken and purchased again recently), it can possibly result in many different side effects and there are no long term studies done [1] (mainly because there's no money in it) despite it being used in other cultures a very long time.

[1] https://www.verywellhealth.com/ashwagandha-benefits-side-eff...

[GianFabien]

I think it is a cultural issue. In parts of Eastern and Southern Europe it is customary to have a shot of spirits in the morning. In many other countries it is normal to have a glass of wine with lunch.

I'm not an alcoholic. Alcoholics go to meetings. I go to parties.

[stratocumulus0]

It's not customary, it's a widely recognized problem that a significant portion of the population starts the day with liquor. Maybe for blue collar workers it's more normalized, but if a white collar has such habit then they will try to cover it up.

[jalapenos]

Yes, the alcoholic parts.

In their defence, if you had to wake up to being in east Europe you'd drink too.

[watwut]

> In parts of Eastern and Southern Europe it is customary to have a shot of spirits in the morning.

Meh, the local word for Eastern European people having to have shots of spirits in the morning is "an alcoholic". It is just there is a lot of them.

[southernplaces7]

The sheer amount of unfounded fear mongering about consuming moderate or small amounts of alcohol on this site is ridiculous. Considering how common it is for people on HN to "authoritatively" comment completely out of their ass on subjects that they're poorly informed about, i'd take any screed against modest to moderate alcohol consumption with a major grain of salt.

Ideally, you shouldn't allow yourself to become dependent on alcohol for any reason, and it obviously causes well known health problems. But as with many things, context, quantity and circumstance are very important factors. billions of people worldwide use alcohol regularly without becoming alcoholics and without any hard evidence of their dying from its effects. If some of them also use modest amounts of it to help certain specific anxiety issues, it's not necessarily or automatically a one-way path to doom or health catastrophe. Let's not fall off a cliff into hyperbole.

Also worth mentioning is how hypocritical such scorn against alcohol here is. This site is famous for numerous people firmly recommending all kinds of poorly explored and sometimes completely unfounded "therapeutic" uses of various random chemicals and mind altering substances. I can't count the number of comments I've seen casually recommending numerous kinds of hallucinogens for various problems in life, but god forbid anyone should use alcohol in any quantity for anything involving their peace of mind... Let's not be absurd. Those other substances are also known for certain potential dangers, and casually recommending one while deriding the other is a visible example of thoughtless bias (probably related to the demographic tendencies of those who comment)

[watwut]

I think it is taboo because of rather catastrophic impact of an alcoholism on your and your close ones lives. And having to use alcohol to function is getting there.

That being said, people DO talk about therapeutic effects of alcohol. Just recently I have heard an recovering alcoholic talk about that - that it was helping her emotionally. Until it wasn't, until full on addiction kicked in, obviously.

Plus, marihuana is still illegal in many places. That is despite the addiction being less dangerous. If anything alcohol is waaay more tolerated.

[big-green-man]

Because any reasoning behind drinking is seen as an excuse to be a drunk.

You're self medicating with alcohol. That's not the worst thing in the world. It helps you. It sounds almost like a miracle drug for you. I don't see why you'd rather switch to benzos.

Just understand, alcohol is addictive and tolerance can be built up, so you're dancing with the devil and you'd better adhere to a set of rules. One drink a day (or every 4 hours or whatever the schedule is to keep you from losing your mind), period, and if it stops working as well, quit for a week or two, anxiety be damned. Also, understand that you're making a trade off. There are health impacts of alcohol, and you're accepting those as worthwhile for the benefit you get. Look into it, be honest with yourself, and determine whether you're happy with the trade off or not.

People self medicate with all kinds of things, and people take things recreationally. I'm personally not a fan of recreational drug use, I use compounds when they're useful, and I make sure I understand them, dangers and all. I do a good slightly excessive drinking session once every couple of months or so to clear built up stress from my head. I might have a drink or two once in a while between those if I'm having a particularly stressful day. I take an opioid (legal, believe it or not) sometimes for acute extreme pain, and won't take it more than two days in a row, pain be damned, so I time it for maximum impact. I drink a cup of coffee a day, just one, that's it, to medicate for migraines. I could probably get away with once every other day, but it's too delicious and not particularly strongly habit forming. I do manage a nicotine addiction, but nicotine (not cigarettes) does increase my clarity of mind when solving problems, so I don't really mind it.

Everybody self medicates, the distinction is what's socially acceptable, and honestly what's socially acceptable is not taking the reigns of your own health and instead putting it in the hands of professionals. And you're supposed to take drugs that have existed for a decade instead of ones that have existed for thousands of years. You're supposed to outsource understanding how they affect you to professionals. We have an opioid crisis because of that, as part of a larger unhealthy relationship with drugs in general as a society. I'd say, stay clear headed, use your better judgment, and just do what works for you. The taboo is misplaced and detrimental to our society. Don't drink too much or switch to benzos and you'll probably be fine.

[jowdones]

I agree with the longpost :)

Also I suspect some people are more tolerant on alcohol than others and I don't mean being allergic to alcohol. Like I was never able to drink and not feel pretty nasty afterwards, even small amounts (not that this deterred me from doing it occasionally). But I see lots of people who can have 2-3 beers and be totally fine and like 10 beers and fairly ok next morning. Not me, and only way I explain it is they are better equipped genetically to processing alcohol than me.

So alcohol doesn't help me much but doesn't mean it helps noone.

[jasfi]

I think you should work with your doctor on resolving this. Using alcohol as a crutch sounds like it could lead to more problems.

Are you on any meds? Is this not perhaps a side-effect of something?

Have you tried Ashwagandha? Perhaps ask your doctor about it (although it's just a supplement), it reduces cortisol. Even if it's not a cure it could help with the stress.

Have you tried exposure therapy? E.g. going to a place outside, wait there for at least 40 mins, and see slowly go further and further. Has a doctor said anything about this?

[p1esk]

How long have you been having a single drink a day? If it’s been a year or longer - you’re unique in not forming an addiction. If not - you’re playing with fire.

[mft_]

/citation needed

Is there evidence that everyone else in the world would be “addicted” to alcohol if they consumed a single drink (one unit, 25mL of 40% spirits of equivalent) for more than 364 days?

I really think you shouldn’t be throwing around such generalisations when someone is attempting to promote a serious discussion about the rational ‘use’ of alcohol.

[lm28469]

I have a lot of friends who drink a large beer every evening and "can stop whenever they want" none of them ever stopped in the last 20 years, they might not be physically addicted to the substance but they are definitely addicted to the habit and the effects are the same in the end. It doesn't matter if you can in theory stop but not do it or if you cannot physically stop, in the end you're drinking every day

[mft_]

> It doesn't matter if you can in theory stop but not do it or if you cannot physically stop

It matters a lot, if you want to use the term "addiction".

Addiction has many definitions, but usually it involves a habit or compusion to some behaviour or consumption of some substance, often with and despite negative consequences (e.g. mental or physical health, employment issues, relationship issues), and often with negative consequences (e.g. withdrawal symptoms) upon cessation.

A single large beer every evening may be a habit, and your friends may miss that habit if they were to stop, but I'd suspect they don't experience significant negative life consequences from that single large beer, and nor would they experience symptoms of physical withdrawal if they stopped.

[p1esk]

I provided my opinion based on what they wrote. I did not intend to generalize it. I’m not sure the OP fully understands the serious risks of alcohol consumption. I have observed enough lives damaged by alcoholism to speak from experience.

[Veen]

But alcoholism and regular alcohol consumption aren't the same thing, are they? Alcoholics regularly consume alcohol, but not everyone who regularly consumes alcohol is an alcoholic.

I like to have a glass of single malt in the evenings after dinner. I've been doing so for years. But if I can't for some reason, so be it. I often forget to have it because I'm busy doing something else. No problem.

[ein0p]

CBT is what you need, not alcohol. You need to gradually convince yourself to not fear your phobia, through small, concrete steps, reinforcement, and external, independent review. Alcohol or MJ will merely dull the symptoms. Between the two, however, there’s no question small doses of MJ are better for your health than drinking even a little every day. Note, however: taken in excess MJ can worsen anxiety.

[JackMorgan]

I would strongly suggest trying to find a CBT program. Also reading books like "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" or "The Body Keeps the Score".

Alcohol to cure the symptoms is dangerous long term. It destroys lives, families, and trust. You can't drown your anxiety. Anxiety comes from somewhere, and the body can just ramp it up and up until it's dealt with.

[austin-cheney]

I cannot speak to agoraphobia or hyper anxiety. Otherwise alcohol is toxic. Recent medical studies have reached the consensus that no amount of medicinal benefit sufficiently makes up for the toxic damage inflicted by alcohol consumption. Thus the only remaining medicinally qualified use of alcohol remains that of a topical antiseptic. Thus from a purely medical perspective alcohol consumption is recreational drug use and in no way therapeutic.

As an unrelated curiosity there is tremendous research into hyper neuroticism because it is directly correlated to high anxiety and high anxiety is bad. However there appears to be next to no research into hypo neuroticism as though it is inherently an unlimited good. I can tell you from experience it isn’t.

[scotty79]

I think it's also used in cases of poisoning with methanol.

[RGamma]

I get your doctors not prescribing benzos, but wonder why they wouldn't suggest an SSRI for this indication instead. Those are much safer than GABAergics long term.

[pfortuny]

What do you mean “a drink?” A beer? A glass of vodka, a thimblefull of absinthe? Unclear parameters.

I used to drink a glass of wine with my meals every day. Not an alcoholic.

[naming_the_user]

FWIW as a Brit, Americans seem to treat alcohol as being much more of a taboo than we do.

A Brit sees an alcoholic as someone who is pissed basically all of the time during the day or maybe 5+ drinks every night of the week.

I don’t know why it’s this way, but it definitely is, Americans when moving to the UK often come across as being really uptight on this.

[jalapenos]

They do talk about its therapeutic effects, literally all the time.

[timonoko]

Herr Doktor Huberman @hubermanlab often speaks about benefits of Controlled Substances. Nicotine for Alzheimer, Alcohol for Social Issues etc etc.

[quintes]

I wish you well mate this sounds hard.