That’s normal nice in the Pacific Northwest. Possibly due to the Scandinavian heritage. Another explanation I heard is that people used to be more open there before the many waves of post 90s immigration. Once people there have established their friend groups they’re not looking to add any more to the group as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.
> Once people there have established their friend groups they’re not looking to add any more to the group as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.
That's such a cynical interpretation of a totally reasonable problem of social dynamics.
A friendship of 2 has different dynamics than 3 than 4, etc. And all of them are different depending on the composition of intraverts/extraverts.
FWIW, the extravert friend groups I know are highly inclusive and are always eager to add new members. For obvious reasons.
And the opposite for introverts who are much more careful and cautious (I am one) because they know how fragile good vibes can be and how new strangers are exhausting and can affect them.
IMO, the Pacific Northwest attracts introverts because the main activities are fairly individualistic (hiking, skiing) and the social aspects happen before/after which you can easily skip. Not so in something like NYC where everything is orientated around other people.
Then extraverts move to the PNW for the hot tech job markets (Seattle/Vancouver) and are annoyed that everyone is so "cold".
I am describing things as I see them, not casting aspersions. As far as I care people can manage their friend groups however they wish even if that results in my own exclusion.
I think what people criticize most is the insincerity in the 'nice'. I see that as a cultural communication issue and not properly understanding local norms. At least in PNW they won't make plans with you, the Northern California version of 'nice' will make plans with you but then flake at the last minute. From an organizational perspective this appears to be rather sub-optimal but I understand why people do it.
Personally I'm weird so I have to navigate cultural differences no matter where I go and I don't expect people to change to accommodate me.
> Once people there have established their friend groups they’re not looking to add any more to the group
Is an observation
> as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.
Is an interpretation.
Perhaps you've met someone that told you this is what's happening to them. But that's an individual, not a blanket assumption you can place across all the locals.
Source: I am a PNW local. I wasn't born here, but have been here since I was a kid. Here's the thing about your point about "insincere nice". It's not insincere. It's just delusional.
I met lots of people. I get excited about lots of them. I mean when I say I want to hang out again, or show them around. I can visualize a future where we do those things. I want to leave the door open to that happening.
But I get busy, I get tired. I make tough choices. And this new person ends up getting prioritized at the bottom of the list.
I know the criticism. This is mean. It's cruel. But it feels meaner to say "i'm too busy to hang out" to someone who i genuinely like and feel like if things lined up well, we could become friends.
If I say "let's hang out again soon" and we never do, I wasn't lying to you. I was lying to myself.
> as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.
I have several friends in Seattle that have explicitly told me this.
PNW is more about not inviting, the flakiness is more of Californian thing. As someone who has spent substantial time in both places as part of a lifetime of being an expat to many places around the world the PNW and California do indeed have these distinct characteristics. Other expat friends have independently come to the same conclusions. As an expat you get to do the whole making new friends thing over and over again so I know what it's normally like and I know when it's different.
It's a generalization, which is not to say that all individuals in these locals have these characteristics.
I'm not disputing the difficulty of the problem, just the root cause motivations.
I don't want to cast aspersions on your friends in Seattle, but...maybe you need better friends.
I've been a local and I've been an expat (5 years in western Europe). I feel that the default PNW "mental model" is diametrically opposed from the expat mindset.
Expats don't want to be tied down, they want to see as much as possible, see the world, meet lots of people. Build friendship quickly and deeply, but then move on too.
PNW is nothing like that.
IMO your expats coming to this conclusion that the reason why the PNW locals are the way they are is a failure of imagination of expats - a lack of understanding of outdoorsy introverts.
We're not thinking about our positions in friend groups.
I do wonder, could be that for much of human history if you ever saw a foreigner one of you was about to die. PNG blood feuds being a modern example. Perhaps societies with a strong centralized state would evolve a culture open to integrating foreigners. I also wonder how much of modern multiculturalism has its roots in colonial empires.
AFAIK many of the Scandinavians that came to the US were escaping the really bad ethnic / religious stratification and famines.
People move to a place, are eager to get connected, but the people there are already connected…except for all the other lonely newbies. It’s a boom-town phenomenon, I think.
And if you are a long-time resident, it’s a little rich having large numbers of people come clog up your town while doing clueless newbie things and then gripe about how they don’t feel welcome.
I've lived in Seattle for 25 years, have been hearing about "Seattle Nice" and "The Seattle Freeze" that whole time. By which they mean that people are friendly and polite on a surface level, but cold and distant when you try to get closer. I think it's a myth, or at any rate I have never experienced it as a trend (individuals, sure). People here are as nice as anywhere else I've been. I think maybe it's confirmation bias: people hear about it, then see it everywhere, like stereotypes about rude New Yorkers, or snooty Parisians.
It would be strange if whole a region, with such a huge population of transplants, all shared the same personality. They don't make you sign a contract to be rude when you move here!
“Seattle freeze” is like “Seattle drivers”. The chances are pretty high that the dumdum who is double-parked in a bus lane while cars honk at them is actually not from Seattle.
(note, sounds racist, but not what I meant. What I meant is that when there's a lot of people coming, it's mechanically harder for people to enter pre-existing social groups, thus the impression that people are not welcoming)
For newbies often it's their first time as an expat or immigrant but for the natives usually they've been through these waves of immigrants multiple times already.
I get this all the time in North Carolina. Maybe it’s just a symptom of the times? Most everyone I know under the age of 40-45 would rather commit hari kari than place a short, friendly phone call.
I live there, that comment made me laugh because there’s definitely some amount of truth in it. I’ve always described west coast Canada as surface nice, but harder to make friends, while Ontario is surface closed off, but a lot easier to make new friends.
The Wikipedia page for the “Seattle freeze” phenomenon mentions it applying to Vancouver[1], also Vancouver has long been known as “No Fun City” because of laws and cultural norms against partying[2].