[cjbgkagh]

That’s normal nice in the Pacific Northwest. Possibly due to the Scandinavian heritage. Another explanation I heard is that people used to be more open there before the many waves of post 90s immigration. Once people there have established their friend groups they’re not looking to add any more to the group as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.

[deanCommie]

> Once people there have established their friend groups they’re not looking to add any more to the group as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.

That's such a cynical interpretation of a totally reasonable problem of social dynamics.

A friendship of 2 has different dynamics than 3 than 4, etc. And all of them are different depending on the composition of intraverts/extraverts.

FWIW, the extravert friend groups I know are highly inclusive and are always eager to add new members. For obvious reasons.

And the opposite for introverts who are much more careful and cautious (I am one) because they know how fragile good vibes can be and how new strangers are exhausting and can affect them.

IMO, the Pacific Northwest attracts introverts because the main activities are fairly individualistic (hiking, skiing) and the social aspects happen before/after which you can easily skip. Not so in something like NYC where everything is orientated around other people.

Then extraverts move to the PNW for the hot tech job markets (Seattle/Vancouver) and are annoyed that everyone is so "cold".

[cjbgkagh]

I am describing things as I see them, not casting aspersions. As far as I care people can manage their friend groups however they wish even if that results in my own exclusion.

I think what people criticize most is the insincerity in the 'nice'. I see that as a cultural communication issue and not properly understanding local norms. At least in PNW they won't make plans with you, the Northern California version of 'nice' will make plans with you but then flake at the last minute. From an organizational perspective this appears to be rather sub-optimal but I understand why people do it.

Personally I'm weird so I have to navigate cultural differences no matter where I go and I don't expect people to change to accommodate me.

[deanCommie]

> I am describing things as I see them

But you're not.

> Once people there have established their friend groups they’re not looking to add any more to the group

Is an observation

> as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.

Is an interpretation.

Perhaps you've met someone that told you this is what's happening to them. But that's an individual, not a blanket assumption you can place across all the locals.

Source: I am a PNW local. I wasn't born here, but have been here since I was a kid. Here's the thing about your point about "insincere nice". It's not insincere. It's just delusional.

I met lots of people. I get excited about lots of them. I mean when I say I want to hang out again, or show them around. I can visualize a future where we do those things. I want to leave the door open to that happening.

But I get busy, I get tired. I make tough choices. And this new person ends up getting prioritized at the bottom of the list.

I know the criticism. This is mean. It's cruel. But it feels meaner to say "i'm too busy to hang out" to someone who i genuinely like and feel like if things lined up well, we could become friends.

If I say "let's hang out again soon" and we never do, I wasn't lying to you. I was lying to myself.

[cjbgkagh]

> as they worry too many new friends will diminish their own place in their friend group.

I have several friends in Seattle that have explicitly told me this.

PNW is more about not inviting, the flakiness is more of Californian thing. As someone who has spent substantial time in both places as part of a lifetime of being an expat to many places around the world the PNW and California do indeed have these distinct characteristics. Other expat friends have independently come to the same conclusions. As an expat you get to do the whole making new friends thing over and over again so I know what it's normally like and I know when it's different.

It's a generalization, which is not to say that all individuals in these locals have these characteristics.

[deanCommie]

I'm not disputing the difficulty of the problem, just the root cause motivations.

I don't want to cast aspersions on your friends in Seattle, but...maybe you need better friends.

I've been a local and I've been an expat (5 years in western Europe). I feel that the default PNW "mental model" is diametrically opposed from the expat mindset.

Expats don't want to be tied down, they want to see as much as possible, see the world, meet lots of people. Build friendship quickly and deeply, but then move on too.

PNW is nothing like that.

IMO your expats coming to this conclusion that the reason why the PNW locals are the way they are is a failure of imagination of expats - a lack of understanding of outdoorsy introverts.

We're not thinking about our positions in friend groups.

[cjbgkagh]

Your personal anecdotes are unconvincing.

[pfannkuchen]

Scandinavia is similarly dark and gloomy in the winter, I think?

Does the darkness cause this effect in people? Is the darkness a filter for people who are like that already?

[cjbgkagh]

I do wonder, could be that for much of human history if you ever saw a foreigner one of you was about to die. PNG blood feuds being a modern example. Perhaps societies with a strong centralized state would evolve a culture open to integrating foreigners. I also wonder how much of modern multiculturalism has its roots in colonial empires.

AFAIK many of the Scandinavians that came to the US were escaping the really bad ethnic / religious stratification and famines.