[frankjr]

> Europe largely missed out on the digital revolution led by the internet and the productivity gains it brought: in fact, the productivity gap between the EU and the US is largely explained by the tech sector. The EU is weak in the emerging technologies that will drive future growth. Only four of the world’s top 50 tech companies are European.

> Europe is stuck in a static industrial structure with few new companies rising up to disrupt existing industries or develop new growth engines. In fact, there is no EU company with a market capitalisation over EUR 100 billion that has been set up from scratch in the last fifty years, while all six US companies with a valuation above EUR 1 trillion have been created in this period.

> The problem is not that Europe lacks ideas or ambition. We have many talented researchers and entrepreneurs filing patents. But innovation is blocked at the next stage: we are failing to translate innovation into commercialisation, and innovative companies that want to scale up in Europe are hindered at every stage by inconsistent and restrictive regulations.

> For example, we claim to favour innovation, but we continue to add regulatory burdens onto European companies, which are especially costly for SMEs and self-defeating for those in the digital sectors. More than half of SMEs in Europe flag regulatory obstacles and the administrative burden as their greatest challenge.

Worth a read. Probably not what the self patting EU clowns were expecting. The disconnect between the introduction and the actual report is especially hilarious.

[the_mitsuhiko]

> Probably not what the self patting EU clowns were expecting.

I don't know who you have in mind with "self petting EU clowns" but in general people are very aware of what's going on. A lot of companies have been giving this feedback for a long time.

[hintymad]

> in general people are very aware of what's going on.

But what can people do? It seems to me that the EU government can do whatever they like. Or is it like what people say about the US politics: the politicians do what voters want, and it's just that a minority of people don't like EU's policies?

[the_mitsuhiko]

> But what can people do? It seems to me that the EU government can do whatever they like

You might think the problem is the EU but in all reality all this shit comes from the national governments. And how to improve these I don't know because people vote for this nonsense.

[frankjr]

> I don't know who you have in mind with "self petting EU clowns"

The politicians.

> A lot of companies have been giving this feedback for a long time.

Yeah, still got ignored as the report suggests.

[RandomLensman]

And who elects those politicians? Does the median voter in the EU want high growth or rather something more like museum?

[Aerroon]

I think there's a very large amount of Europeans that either want something like a museum or they simply don't understand what the opportunity costs are for what they want. They think the economy is gonna work itself out and be good no matter what.

For example: environmental talk when your largest source of natural resources gets cut off is just going to compound together. It will result in high energy prices, which will make your industry less competitive and prices higher. Quality of life will fall as a result of this. But people will just blame it on something else (whatever happens to be the popular scapegoat the time). And this same kind of pattern repeats itself in many areas of life, where Europeans just ignore what the opportunity costs are.

[frankjr]

> And who elects those politicians?

For the most part other politicians. A vote of a constituent every few years means very little, you don't even know for sure who gets to be a MEP, you give a "preference". For the remaining time EU politicians do whatever they want and you are just expected to take it. And if your country doesn't want to, they give you a penalty.

[RandomLensman]

And that differs how from some national systems? How can the Commission do whatever it takes when the Council is the senior part of the executive when it comes to outlining policies and countries enjoy veto rights on a variety of things there (and can even leave the EU)?

[Aerroon]

The way the EU differs from national systems in that the EU is compartmentalized. The different languages and cultures mean that ideas, information, and politics doesn't flow freely. If you care about a specific policy then not only do you have to convince all the voters in your country, but you'll have to convince people in a dozen other countries that speak entirely different languages too.

Compartmentalization like this also allows some influence to spread more than it would in a unified information space. It's possible for a larger country to convince a smaller one to side with them on an EU level issue, while "paying" for it on a national level.

I think that because of these barriers it makes sense that a lot of European voters feel entirely disconnected from EU level politics. It's preteen met with an attitude of "Brussels decided that we must jump, so we jump." It's reminiscent of the Soviet times with "Moscow decided". (Not in the decisions itself, but people's attitudes.)

[Mistletoe]

The thing is though that I want to move to Europe precisely for all these same reasons. And I want to do it with my USA dollars and wealth that enabled it, so I do recognize the dissonance there.

Are Europeans happier due to all of the reasons you listed? Do you enable wealth to grow at the expense of the happiness of its residents if you implement the reforms needed to “move fast and break things”? Are Americans happier due to this wealth and entrepreneurship? I don’t think so, they seem pretty miserable right now. Overconsumption and having too much has made this generation have a lower life expectancy than the last, a stunning result.

It would be unwise to pass these changes and enrich a few wealthy Europeans at the top and instill serfdom again and wealth inequality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

[clarionbell]

Problem is that it's not sustainable. We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point.

The careful approach may have brought as pretty far. But isn't working anymore. It hasn't worked since 2008 at least.

[silverquiet]

> We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point.

Other than the defense part, the same could be said for the US.

[Workaccount2]

The US has very rosy economic future projections compared to Europe, and frankly the rest of the world. Don't be fooled by sensational headlines and chronically online college kids complaining.

[gota]

Rosy in comparison to the rest of the world - maybe

Rosy in comparison to 1976~2000 - no

I'm under the impression it's been (sort of) proven (but I have no source) that the major reason for 'college kids complaining' is precisely because of the perceived loss in quality of life, purchasing power and access to {healtchare, safety, community, third spaces} when compared to prior generations

[aesch]

I'm glad you mentioned 'perceived' loss in quality of life. I think that is what is being argued, does the perception meet the reality?

It could be that the major reason for 'college kids perception of loss in quality of life' is that the rise of ad-driven media, as opposed to the previous generation's subscription model, leads to more sensationalized news to drive clicks. Combine that with online forums (echo chambers) that make it easier to complain to a sympathetic audience. College kids are also more susceptible to recency bias, they didn't live through previous times of uncertainty and have no memories of cold wars or the turbulence that previous generations lived through.

[silverquiet]

Do the future projections suggest that those gains will be shared equitably or lead to greater happiness and life outcomes for Americans?

[Workaccount2]

These are economic projections, not sociopolitical ones.

The harvest looks very likely to increase all else being equal. How it is distributed and how the farm is managed in the future is another matter.

[RGamma]

The US as a statistic, perhaps. As a collection of people... not sure, they seem pretty angry already.

[archagon]

A MAGA victory, now or in the future, can burn it all to the ground. The political situation is incredibly volatile.

[chairmansteve]

Not sure that the US has worked since 2008 either. The streets are full of homeless. Half the population is angry enough (about what I'm not sure), that they are about to elect a self described dictator.

[aziaziazi]

Your concerns are legitimate but the dream of an ever growing production isn’t sustainable either. But that is ok: not being the most powerful within a group is totally fine.

[pfannkuchen]

On the defense issue, I don’t really see where the threat would come from.

Russia isn’t in such a great place militarily either. It would be incredibly culturally strange for China to invade that far away and I don’t know that their military is configured for that anyway. They may influence and sabotage but would never attack Europe militarily IMO. Middle East and North Africa states don’t pose much of a threat still in an actual military conflict.

Who does that leave to defend against? America?

[carlosjobim]

> Who does that leave to defend against?

Maybe the criminal gangs, who already have capacity rivaling and sometimes surpassing European governments?

Or maybe killing, gang raping, shooting, bombing and looting is not an actual military conflict, because the soldiers don't wear uniforms, and thus nothing for the busy Europeans to mind.

[pfannkuchen]

Those are big problems, but the issue is a lack of will, not a lack of military strength. If the will situation changed those threats could be gone within a week.

[leadingthenet]

We are getting old, are having few if any children, yet our social contract is built on a series of Ponzi schemes that become unmaintainable under such circumstances. The temporary band-aid fix of mass migration is seemingly bringing many old and proud nations to a boiling point. We like our regulations, we like our welfare state, we like our extensive holidays and work life balance, and we’re not willing to budge on any of them, really. There’s too many contradictions in the system now. I’m not sure what it would take for this “will” to materialise, but I’m afraid if it does happen, it’ll come about due to some form of neo-fascism than a glorious rejuvenation of our current political order.

If the will doesn’t materialise, well, that’s exactly what civilisational collapse looks like in the historical record.

Either way, I’m not really seeing the optimistic outlook for Europe.

[carlosjobim]

That's laughable. Or really, it's tragicomic. If you don't have the will power, you have nothing. How can you not have the will to defend your civilians against the most horrible crimes and looting from organized criminals? Saying that you could fix it if you only wanted sounds like a guy in a bar saying he could beat you if only he wanted. Sure.

In South America they do put in the military against criminal gangs. Why don't the Europeans? Especially considering that the criminal gangs there are predominately consisting of foreigners, meaning they are de-facto a military matter.

[moi2388]

I suppose the truth/ideal situation would be somewhere in the middle.

But the inability to capitalise on the tech sector, difficult regulations as barrier to entry, and a lot of changing rules regarding innovation, making things “green” and environmental and consumer safety does give a high burden to industry when competing with entities like China and the USA which do not have these restrictions.

I think a long-term plan regarding regulations which are clear upfront and don’t constantly change, as well as massive tax benefits to new corporations could provide an economical boost.

Having said that, I am not an economist, so I’d love someone with more knowledge to give their 2 cents. (Tax free, of course)

[izacus]

My two cents are that EU needs to follow USA with aggressive protectionism to offset the regulation.

[AlchemistCamp]

Follow? The EU has been more more protectionist for decades in everything from agriculture to cars.

If you look at the WTO’s published data, the mean tariffs in the EU are 5.0% while even now, the US is at just 3.2%.

https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/tariff_profiles_l...

[2OEH8eoCRo0]

It's a shame that the EU is painted as a failure unless they have low taxes and industrious go-getters trashing their system.

Their awesomeness doesn't show on a balance sheet so it might as well not exist.

[throwaway48540]

I live in EU. What awesomeness? There are places with better social and health services while having less taxes and regulations. The regulations are making actual day to day life hard for everyone, directly as well as indirectly. EU is surviving, but I definitely wouldn't - and don't know anyone who would - say it's thriving. Most of my friends who work in software and other hitech are planning their move to US.

[2OEH8eoCRo0]

Life expectancy? Happiness?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happines...

[throwaway48540]

Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers.

"Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw.

Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.

[renewiltord]

No. That's normal. Getting rich and moving to a place where labour is cheap is a pretty good strategy.

[MangoCoffee]

Another point to consider: what happened to Telegram's CEO?

Pavel Durov was arrested because he didn't police his platform sufficiently or whatever, or so France claims.

That alone is unsettling. It's been discussed among techies on Twitter. Why would anyone smart enough to create something want to start a company in the EU?

Why risk your neck to start a startup in such an environment?

[gwervc]

This is in addition to the world most expensive taxation (France), so assuming you can manage to be a least ramen profitable you can't expect to cash-in more than ~40-45% of the end profits in your pocket.

[mlinhares]

If your platform is a cesspool of CSAM and you loudly say you'll do nothing about it, countries not holding you accountable are the problem. None of the other large social platforms have behaved like this because they know where it ends.

[Der_Einzige]

There's more CSAM per capita (at least 10x likely more like 100x) on a platforms which "purports to police CSAM" like Civit.ai. No one does anything about it though.

Oh you don't believe me? This is one of the most popular models on their whole site: https://civitai.com/models/402667/age-slider-lora-or-ponyxl-...

Stable Diffusion 1.5 was trained on at least thousands of images of this stuff and no one has tried to get that model taken down, mostly because training on sufficiently large datasets almost guarantees that you'll have illegal content included within it. https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/20/24009418/generative-ai-i...

I'm also shocked for related reasons that the 3 and 4 letters haven't been more upset about LLMs, since there's almost certainly a ton of classified info just sitting on the internet that LLMs have ingested into their training data. (don't believe me? https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2024/03/26...)

[RandomLensman]

Does every startup have to be in social media?

[7bit]

Take your populist desinformation and Russian propaganda somewhere else...

Telegrams CEO was arrested because the company didn't properly cooperate with law enforcement. Every democratic first-world country would have done the same.

[pokerface_86]

>No EU company with market cap >100b EURO

am i dumb? does this not include nordo novisk?