[pavlov]

> "you also have to wonder where the salaries would be at in tech, and how many more citizens would be training for these roles if it weren't for H-1B visa"

On the flip side, you have to wonder where the American tech industry would be without immigrants.

Nvidia was founded by the son of Taiwanese parents who sent their children to live with an uncle in the US. That's one of the many immigration paths that the MAGAs want to close.

Was the creation of Nvidia a "handout to corporations"? Intel sure would be happy if Jensen Huang had never made it to America.

[carom]

I don't disagree, getting smart and ambitious people to move to your country is a really good policy overall. It is just worth weighing it against the opportunity cost for the citizens of the country.

[indoordin0saur]

One thing I seldom see discussed is how if you're attracting the best and brightest it is leaving the original country poor. These places invest in their children hoping that they'll start businesses and then all that investment just ends up going to those countries that are already the richest.

I certainly don't blame anyone for wanting to move to improve their situation (I did it too!) but I wonder if developing countries would have caught up to the West decades ago if this brain drain wasn't going on.

[pacerier]

What opportunity cost? Expensive healthcare? Expensive housing? Hey pal, why not everything else under the sun?

Immigrants have made the country rich enough to give everyone ubi free housing and free healthcare. But Then Billionaires.

#immigrants-are-the-new-jews #stop-blaming-the-hand-that-feeds

( Of course, it's not billionaires per se, but Greed. Eg in countries like singapore, the Politicians are the problem. )

For a living example, take a look at UAE, although I'd say they could have treated immigrants a bit better.

[the_real_cher]

doesn't it beg the question though... if they're so good for America why aren't they good for their own country?

[shiroiushi]

Because their country doesn't offer the same opportunities to achieve the things they believe they can in their new country. It's the main reason people emigrate. No one's going to build Nvidia in India or China, for instance, at least not back in the time that it was created in America.

[the_real_cher]

America didn't used to be the country that offered those opportunities.

Yet people built it and made it that way.

Nothing is static people csn change anything

These people need to do that in their own countries.

[surgical_fire]

Kind of ironic, considering the whole original population of America (the whole continent) was mostly replaced by immigrants, starting some time after 1492 AD.

[the_real_cher]

well in that context they were conquerors

[shiroiushi]

The people that built it and made it that way in America were all immigrants.

[the_real_cher]

I didn't know Bell labs employees Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were all immigrants

[pacerier]

> didn't used to be

That's false. By definition none would have come if there wasn't opportunity. You don't need to be a geography student to see that it wasn't just irreligious opportunity.

[the_real_cher]

do you think opportunity just magically springs up in places or do you think people make it?

[echelon]

The value and commensurate compensation of talent depends on location. Proximity to colleagues, decision makers, and capital.

[the_real_cher]

Somebody has to sacrifice to be the first to start something like that in their own country.

In America we built companies art and music out of our garages just for the love of it... not because "that's where the compensation was."

[t43562]

You guys move around for opportunity all the time.

[the_real_cher]

Some not most

[pacerier]

What are you talking about? Is this fact or romance? The country certainly did not become what it is through love of sacrifice.

[foldr]

They are. When a doctor immigrates from Nigeria to the US, then that's broadly speaking good for the US and bad for Nigeria.

[the_real_cher]

is it though...

[foldr]

Both countries have a shortage of doctors, so yes.

[pacerier]

That's not how it works. It depends on whether (how much) they are paid and if so what do they buy with that payment. Are they settled in US buying pizzas and Netflix?

Because if not, then investments to Nigeria past $x will grant it the upperhand since all that money can get you another doctor and more.

[asimpletune]

It makes sense for big fish to seek big ponds

[the_real_cher]

India and China arent big ponds?

[pacerier]

Many pockets of the pond are not yet deep, making it unsuitable for many species.

[pacerier]

But they are. Yet men being men will go where they think the money/food is.

[jyounker]

When they leave their country it's called Brain Drain.

[yunohn]

> the son of Taiwanese parents who sent their children to live with an uncle in the US. That's one of the many immigration paths that the MAGAs want to close.

Is this an actual immigration path that still remains open? I find it hard to believe.

[pavlov]

It’s a patchwork. The latest policy to allow undocumented immigrant children to stay is from 2012 and still in effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_...

[varjag]

No not really. Maybe in Ellis Island days.

Most born Americans certainly have no fainest clue how hard it is to legally immigrate to the USA already.

[pacerier]

Actually it is incredibly easy. But keyword is not "productivity", it is "family".

Who knew.. that the racist plan to ensure the population stays white actually had the reverse effect.. 2024 and nothing's still being done about it because That's racist doh!

[varjag]

Family reunification with your uncle is impossible. You literally just proved my point.

[pacerier]

You can't do it with an uncle and that does not make it hard. It is in fact incredibly easy.

[varjag]

For someone who has no immediate family in the USA (i.e. most people of the world) the reunification venue is closed. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.

[the_real_cher]

there's a lot of businesses simply built around hacking the US immigration system.

the people most likely to immigrate aren't the smartest but the people with the most money who can pay to hack the system

[varjag]

There really isn't much "hacking" going on, it's mostly fraud. Fictional marriages, fake jobs and so on. I was talking about legal ways.