[janmo]

It is even possible that Durov has saved lives by not communicating user information to the french intelligence services.

Recently have been a bunch of scandals where french intelligence officers where involved in murder plots.

- There is "Haurus", a french intelligence officer who sold personal information on the darknet, in one case he sold personal information including the address of a drug dealer. Something that is believed to have helped in his murdered by a "competitor".

- There is the murder of racing driver "Laurent Pasquali" who is presumed to have been killed by a french intelligence officer. The plot involved over 20 people with several of them being french intelligence officers. In fact they got his personal information and address to plan the murder plot through the french intelligence database.

You can Google all this, it is true.

[NiekvdMaas]

To make things even stranger, Durov was apparently invited to lunch by Macron. Instead of a presidential welcome, he was arrested on arrival.

Source: https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1828529272539304278

[yorwba]

Non-copypasta source: https://x.com/canardenchaine/status/1828438807697408059 (When Zlatti_71 signs off with "Remylind23" and can't spell the name of the French newspaper they're attributing, doesn't that make you a bit suspicious? And Le Canard enchaîné is a satirical newspaper, so it's not inconceivable that the story is made-up.)

[JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B]

It has a sarcastic tone but it is one of the best newspaper for the sources. Other newspapers regularly cite them.

[BlueTemplar]

The question is whether that statement is a joke or not (they do both).

[RandomThoughts3]

No, they don't do joke articles. It's not the Onion. That wouldn't be called satirical in France anyway.

It's satirical in the sense that it takes a mocking tone. It doesn't do parody.

[BlueTemplar]

Who said anything about articles only ?

For instance, this one is obviously a parody :

https://francois-pelletant.fr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

[emptysongglass]

I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend the French government on this matter.

The European Union has been angling for more comprehensive access to messaging platforms with proposal after proposal.

Everyone here loves to sing the praises of the EU but broad regulatory powers is not a clear cut value proposition: European governments and those governed have a long history of oppression.

What's more, many of the broad regulatory powers have been used successfully by despotic regimes like China as cudgels not only to break apart monopolies (good) but to demand unfettered access to data (bad).

These accusations made by the French government of conspiracy on one individual and alleged invitations by a head of state to entrap should be chilling to anyone observing. It reminds me of what happened to Jack Ma, when Ant threatened the CPC's interests.

If Telegram really was not answering enforcement requests in a timely manner, then France should have moved against the company either through a direct ban on the app itself or other court action. Putting its CEO in prison sends a message. That message should be terrifying to anyone who values a free society.

[RandomThoughts3]

> I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend the French government on this matter.

I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend Telegram like if it was an open attack of free speach and not justified by Telegram completes lack of cooperation in crime investigations.

>If Telegram really was not answering enforcement requests in a timely manner, then France should have moved against the company either through a direct ban on the app itself or other court action. Putting its CEO in prison sends a message.

Yes, it sends the message that executives are actually responsible for what their company does. That's a good message.

[hilbert42]

Yes, it does send a message. But it should only have been done after rules have been set and are clear to everyone. Simply, proper law first established and in place and then due and proper process followed.

Acting opportunistically without warning and or out of vengefulness or malice brings Justice into ill-repute.

Like entrapment, this is action is about as low and debased as it gets.

The French Government could have banned Telegram across French territories, not only has it not done that but French leaders actually use the program. Such hypocrisy is mind-blowing.

Whatever happened to Liberté, égalité, fraternité?

[RandomThoughts3]

> But it should only have been done after rules have been set and are clear to everyone.

Rules are and were always very clear. That's called the law. I don't understand why people here are acting like if there somehow was something surprising in Durov arrest.

> Like entrapment, this is action is about as low and debased as it gets.

There is no entrapment here. Entrapment is illegal in France. Durov was arrested as part of an investigation on Telegram practices. Law inforcement was not in anyway part of Telegarm not respecting the law.

> The French Government could have banned Telegram across French territories

The issue is not about Telegram as an application which is and remains perfectly legal. The issue is with Telegram as a company which is not helping in criminal investigations. Why should France ban a legal application?

[hilbert42]

It's simple really. If French Laws were clear Durov would NOT have gone to France. QED.

[3np]

Related for context: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12309-a_year_of_surveillance_in_...

[simion314]

The CEO can run away and refuse to collaborate with the investigation or refuse to appear in court to defend his crimes, creating a company to get fa immunity from your crimes is not a thing that works.

I read that the guy is free now but he is not allowed to leave France.

[EricE]

It's amazing how many seem to enjoy the taste of shoe leather, isn't it?

[BlueTemplar]

And by this point, platforms also have a decently long history of being evil (and Telegram seems to have a mixed history in trying to combat this natural tendency), so why wouldn't we ?

[bdjsiqoocwk]

Wait, I thought we were for accountability and people not being able to hide behind their companies. Which one is it?

[KaiserPro]

> It is even possible that Durov has saved lives by not communicating user information to the french intelligence services.

If you ignore the missing human rights activists were using telegram and then suddenly disappeared.

as pointed out before, telegram is utterly compromised security wise. Its really advantageous that "naughty people" are documenting their stuff there as it leaves a loverly indelible trail of actions.

[gdsfg534]

> If you ignore the missing human rights activists were using telegram and then suddenly disappeared.

What human rights activists? What kind of gaslighting is that?

[an_guy]

What does missing human rights activists have to do with telegram?

What are your sources on "utterly compromised security on telegram"?

[KaiserPro]

> What are your sources on "utterly compromised security on telegram"?

Have you looked at the "encrypted" protocol? Wonderfully complex, and the key authority is telegram, with little to no way to spot bait and switch. But thats the "secret" messaging. Everything else is plain text and stored centrally.

its basically facebook/slack with better cyrillic support.

[emptysongglass]

These are all false claims. Messages are not stored in plaintext. Secret Chats are E2EE and use standard crypto primitives. All of this is well-documented. [1] [2]

[1] https://core.telegram.org/mtproto/AJiEAwIYFoAsBGJBjZwYoQIwFM...

[2] https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end

[ThePowerOfFuet]

https://words.filippo.io/dispatches/telegram-ecdh/

[polotics]

Well you are looking at crimes by former intelligence officers here, also you'll find two complete rookies, had just got in and clearly they were in some weird gung-ho state. If you look for those stories you'll be finding plenty of ex cops, even SO team members, having gone for illicit easy money one way or another thanks to the potent mix of impunity and stupidity...

[Unbefleckt]

Plausible deniability

[wordpad25]

Russia has been HEAVILY relying on telegram for military operations.

It would be a huge stretch of imagination to say Telegram is savings lives.

[maeln]

> - There is the murder of racing driver "Laurent Pasquali" who is presumed to have been killed by a french intelligence officer. The plot involved over 20 people with several of them being french intelligence officers. In fact they got his personal information and address to plan the murder plot through the french intelligence database.

The guy who is presumed to be the murderer is an ex-intelligence officer, not currently employed by the intelligence services.

> It is even possible that Durov has saved lives by not communicating user information to the french intelligence services.

And exactly how many did he condemned by letting criminal network run wild on his platform, with little to no moderation, and no collaboration with police forces ?

[gdsfg534]

> The guy who is presumed to be the murderer is an ex-intelligence officer

There's a "he resigned two weeks ago" meme in Russia. Every time a police officer or someone else from the government is caught red-handed committing a crime, it "turns out" they have allegedly resigned a few weeks prior to the incident. It seems Putin's regime is not an aberration, they're trailblazers.

[maeln]

Except the guy was working for the DCRI, which has turned into the DGSI since 2014. So it has been out of the police forces for at least 10 years. Not a few weeks ago.

You can find a lot of information on french media, like https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/reseau-franc-macon-de...

What would be more concerning is that current member of the DGSE were planning a murder (in the same article). But then again, they were arrested, and this is why we know what likely happened to Pasquali. This is not Russia where the FSB can run wild.

Finally, I do find it strange to argue with a brand new account who basically just post to defend Telegram.

[gdsfg534]

> Finally, I do find it strange to argue with a brand new account who basically just post to defend Telegram.

Why do you find it strange? Do you consider self compilation of a dossier on yourself a healthier practice?