[recursivedoubts]

Get married and have children. For time immemorial that is what your ancestors have done. It will not make you happy as you currently conceptualize it, but it will add purpose (and much suffering, as always comes with purpose) to your life. It is what you are designed to do.

[pavel_lishin]

> Get married and have children.

This is terrible advice to someone you know virtually nothing about, other than the three paragraphs they chose to type out about themselves. The first part, fine, it only affects a consenting adult. But I always hesitate to cheerfully tell someone to go ahead and sign up for a minimum of 18 years of responsibility for a human being, a human being that you'll be responsible for molding into a happy, healthy human being - a thing that's surprisingly easy to fuck up to the detriment of not only them, but everyone they touch.

This advice is slightly more irresponsible than suggesting to someone that they get a face tattoo.

[caseyohara]

I agree

OP: "Every day feels like prison."

HN Advice: "What you need is an irrevocable, lifelong commitment! Get married and have children!"

[recursivedoubts]

Yep. Exactly.

[astura]

Sadly, it's the advice of the typical parent - bring children into the world to suffer for entirely selfish reasons with no regard for the needs, feelings, or welfare of the HUMAN BEINGS they are creating.

"Create children in order to cure your existential dread" only takes into consideration the needs & feelings of one of of the potentially many humans affected by such a choice.

Nobody fucking cares about the severe pain of the victims this sort of advice creates.

[recursivedoubts]

a teleological argument has nothing to do with selfishness and in fact i am recommending to OP immolation of the hedonistic pleasure-drive i don't know who you are arguing with but it isn't me

[pavel_lishin]

OP can immolate whichever parts of himself he wants, he's an adult, but it's irresponsible to suggest that he have a child simply for that one purpose.

[recursivedoubts]

Nope. No one is telling them this because everyone is either scared to do so or is trapped in a hedonistic self-oriented conception of happiness.

This is my advice, I am sincere in it and I feel that, given their presentation of the facts of their life, it is likely to be the most effective way to grow as a human. Note that I do mention that it will give them purpose and suffering, not happiness as they current conceive of it.

[rlue]

“Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. But if you take this irreversible life choice that lots of people actually regret, I sincerely feel that you are likely to see the light.”

People shouldn’t have kids to soothe their existential malaise; they should have kids because they actually want to devote their lives to nurturing another living thing. They are not a prop for your personal growth. This is really, really harmful advice.

FWIW given the rigidity of your thinking, I would really hate to be your kid by the time I started having opinions of my own.

P.S. You being out here responding to every single comment without hesitation and not reconsidering your position in the slightest is a sign of bad thinking.

[astura]

>FWIW given the rigidity of your thinking, I would really hate to be your kid by the time I started having opinions of my own.

Can confirm, it's torture.

[recursivedoubts]

i asked my sons how, given the rigidity of my thinking, it was being my, er, son:

"fine", "great" & "awesome"

of course there are many issues with this poll, i will not debate that fact, but at least we now have some data to work with!

[antisthenes]

> P.S. You being out here responding to every single comment without hesitation and not reconsidering your position in the slightest is a sign of bad thinking.

Funny. You make a snide remark to OP "Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong." and immediately follow it up with "here's this opinion I disagree with that is bad thinking, because they don't immediately change it based on a few comments from internet strangers".

I really, really, hope you see the hypocrisy here.

[rlue]

You’re right; what I should have said was “everyone who disagrees with me is operating from a morally inferior value system!” but that’s not as pithy.

In case you’d prefer something more prosaic: there is a difference between stating a contrary position and implying that other people’s positions indicate a defective worldview from which they should seek to free themselves. Or, more simply, there’s a difference between attacking a point and attacking a person.

I would also add that your last point is a bit of a straw man. I can scarcely clarify except by restating my point: spamming a thread with kneejerk retorts instead of taking the time to reflect on someone’s criticism is a dialectical red flag.

[pavel_lishin]

I have a child. I very specifically wanted to have a child with my spouse, and every day I'm glad I did it.

I don't suggest doing it to people as a form of therapy.

Your advice is bad.

[recursivedoubts]

who said anything about therapy? i offered only suffering and purpose.

[pavel_lishin]

Other people in the thread.

I don't think this conversation is useful past this point.

[recursivedoubts]

I agree. And I do want to thank you for engaging me in good faith and relatively politely despite your opinion on my advice.

[nunez]

You don't need to produce children to have purpose. This advice is reckless.

[LargeWu]

If you are feeling trapped, adding children to the mix are not what you need. I love my wife and family, but it is definitely limiting. Even changing jobs within my field is challenging because I've built a lifestyle around my family's needs that my current job accommodates, never mind changing careers. Having kids is the biggest commitment you could ever have.

[resource_waste]

I would say that is one of the 3 conclusions I've drawn from philosophy as a solution to 'What is the Good?':

>Darwinism (as you imply, it makes you well rounded, almost like an Aristotelian Happy person, without the virtue ethics.)

>Utilitarianism(some combination of advancing humanity to reduce pain and increase pleasure)

>Hedonism(Nothing matters, enjoy the sensory experience)

[recursivedoubts]

A good list. I think you could split the Aristotelan concept out from Darwinism and also add the Religious concept: "To do what God wills".

[jdoliner]

There is a lot of wisdom in the old ways.

[piyuv]

When the carrot (which is attached to the stick) disappears, attach a new one, move on

[uhtred]

Isn't that kind of selfish though?

What if you have a child just to make yourself feel better and that kid goes on to have a shitty unhappy life wishing they'd never been born?

[codr7]

Why would you feeling better increase the odds of a child having a shitty unhappy life?

Sounds like a pretty shitty excuse in my ears, sorry.

[uhtred]

All the people in Auschwitz could have had happy parents but a lot of them probably wished they'd never been born. Life is hard. Really hard sometimes.

Forcing a child to go through it all just to give your own life meaning? Totally selfish.

[codr7]

Do you really feel comfortable judging like that. You have no idea about their wishes.

Using that as an argument for not having children is beyond silly.

Just say that you don't want children, it's ok, you don't have to make up reasons and try and convince others.

I think you're missing out on something amazing, but that's just my personal opinion.

[pavel_lishin]

It's not a guarantee that having a child will make OP feel better.

[codr7]

But not unlikely from my experience, it tends to reset your priority list in a good way.

[codr7]

Purpose is key, as is responsibility.

And children are amazing.

[silverquiet]

What if women aren't interested in you?

[recursivedoubts]

This is a very difficult question

In pervious times there were more options because there was very little divorce and people, for the most part, paired for life, which meant one-to-one pairing was easier, and, for people who didn't pair up, there were options such as monasteries, convents, etc

I am not an expert, just an old man, so take this advice for what it's worth: perhaps try getting involved with a church in a volunteer capacity and really focus on volunteering/helping other people. This may lead to finding someone you are compatible with and, if it does not, will give you a family-like (with all the good & bad associated with that) environment in which to connect with other people.

[miketery]

At a simplest level become the kind of person women are interested in.

Take care of you health (sleep, exercise, and eat well), dress in a put together fashion, take care of hygiene, have interests that excite you and you can share with others, and finally socialize more.

[snozolli]

have interests that excite you and you can share with others

I think the best piece of concise wisdom I've ever read is, "to be interesting, be interested". Meaning not only to have hobbies and interests, but to be interested in the people around you.

[marcusverus]

Finding a woman is like finding a job--it's a numbers game. The more you put yourself out there, the more likely you are to find someone who's a good fit for you. Life is not a movie. You are not going to bump into your soulmate in the dry goods section at Whole Foods. So get on all the apps. Do speed dating. Put yourself out there. Accept the constant, crushing pain of rejection as the cost of doing business. Just like in a job hunt, you've got to desensitize yourself to rejection, secure in the knowledge that every 'no' gets you closer to the inevitable 'yes'.

You've also got to be be brutally honest with yourself about your prospects.

Pretend for a moment that mate desirability is objective and quantifiable, and that we've got every available woman in your area charted on a bell curve of desirability. The top 0.01% will say NO to you every time, because they're looking for a male in the top 0.01% of desirability (i.e. Gavin Newsome lookin' motherfuckers with Marth's Vineyard money). Meanwhile, the bottom 0.01% will say YES every time, because you're a HUGE catch from their perspective. Somewhere in the middle are many, many women who would be interested in you.

If you're struggling to find women who are interested in you, the cause is likely either A) not searching in earnest, or B) you're over-estimating your own desirability, and thus fishing in unproductive waters.

[silverquiet]

It seems that people think I'm asking for advice, but really it's just the question that always occurs to me when people are questioning the falling rates of marriage and fertility.

Myself, I think my problem was that I didn't want the job. I'm not even that thrilled about having to work my actual job.

[triceratops]

OP is in a relationship.

[silverquiet]

More of a question for the people who recommend it as general advice/are worried about fertility. Seems to be a pretty common factor these days.

[onemoresoop]

> Get married and have children

I second this. I was in a similar position as the OP and after having a child the perspective has changed quite a bit and soul crushing jobs are a lot more bearable, meaning is no longer tied to the job.

[trevithick]

Your experience is common enough that The Simpsons addressed it.[1] It's interesting to see the positions being taken in this thread. There are supportive comments like yours, and legitimate opposition to OP's advice.

Someone on either side of the argument who follows this advice may find it's not what they expected, for better or worse.

[1] https://i.redd.it/f2yrbleee7v81.jpg

[rambojohnson]

are you serious? this nuclear family cliche is terrible advice and would only make one feel even more stuck. ludicrous lol

[swat535]

Having a family is now a cliche..? OP gave his opinion like everyone else and his position is just as valid. Ultimately having a family and children gives most people purpose in life. I think exposing inclusive point of views can help him figure it out on his own.

[recursivedoubts]

yes, i am serious

[ursuscamp]

This is good advice. Happiness is found through purpose, not hedonistic pursuit of abstract happiness for its own sake. Family is the ultimate purpose, but if not family then find a way to contribute to the greater world: Start a business and employ others, or dedicate your time to a charitable cause.

Purpose frees you, not traps you further, if you embrace it.