[csa]

While I agree with some of your points regarding salary, this is all just wrong:

> They have expensive health benefits

Hmm… maybe more expensive when compared to private tech industry jobs, but cheap compared to owning your own business.

> 13 days of PTO a year

Starts at 13 days for first 2 years, then is 20 days from 3-15, then 26 days from 15 on.

Plus medical leave.

Plus it’s usually easy to get people to donate leave in the event of a medical emergency.

> put a huge chunk of their paycheck (almost 5%) into a mandatory pension plan

Not mandatory at all. The government puts in 1% for folks automatically. They match up to 5% total.

> that consistently underperforms the market

It literally is the market. They have funds for S&P 500 and Dow total market, plus a few others, all at super low fees.

None of these funds are speculative other than the total market that the fund represents.

[academia_hack]

In terms of benefits, here's an anecdotal comparison with a senior engineer (5-10 years experience) at a mid-level start up I worked at.

* Federal Pay (GS-12): $100,000 * Startup Pay: $150 base + $25 k bonus + equity

* Federal Health Insurance (United mid-tier plan, no family): $2,500/year * Startup Insurance (United mid-tier plan, no family): $0/year

* Federal Leave: 20 days (after 4 years in federal government) * Startup Leave: Unlimited

* Federal Sick Leave: 13 days * Startup Sick Leave: Unlimited

The pension I'm talking about actually isn't the TSP (which is fine, but slightly more expensive than comparable Vanguard funds).

All federal employees must contribute 4.4% of their salary to the FERS now which is taken out of their base pay just like their health/dental/fegli. It used to be 0.8% but congress gutted it a few years ago.

FERS takes decades before it's more than pocket change and the same money invested in the market would yield higher expected returns without requiring you to work 20 years in gov to benefit from it.

[niij]

I'm following you on pay. But to act like "unlimited" pto or vacation time is a good benefit is a joke. Unlimited, to me, is 365 days off per year.

[academia_hack]

True that! I use probably 15 days of "unlimited" leave and still manage to feel guilty about it.

The frustrating thing for people in fed jobs is that if you hit your 13 days that's it (during your first 3 years in government). It can be impossible to get PTO until you build up hours again. You have to either quit, negotiate LWOP (often seen as a performance adverse metric on your record), or work. So if you land a sweet concert ticket, see a flight deal, have a friend get married, etc. you better hope you've banked up the leave for it. Since you gain hours every 2 weeks (4, 6 or 8 depending on service) you also start out in government with virtually no leave and can't actually take a 2 week trip until you've been there almost a full year.

[csa]

> It can be impossible to get PTO until you build up hours again. You have to either quit, negotiate LWOP (often seen as a performance adverse metric on your record), or work.

I’m not sure if this is your actual experience, or if you’re just reading the docs, but…

Most supervisors totally understand the limited leave for folks in their first two years, and they will frequently grant advance leave (basically leave that gets repaid when earned) for folks who are performing at an acceptable level.

It’s not a shit show unless someone wants to take a lot of leave before earning it.

Weddings, concerts, even helping family for health stuff… all that’s usually covered under advanced leave when necessary.

I would say that the leave situation as a fed is much easier than in an “unlimited leave” situation.

The real shitty part, imho, is “time and attendance”. Kicking out early for your kids ball game, for example, will cost leave. As a business owner, I like that I can just stop working and do whatever.