[serial_dev]

I dislike the "hit by the bus" not because it hypothetically kills a team mate, but because it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died apart from the fact that only you know how to do x and y.

"Abducted by an alien" is so absurd, it takes away all that and replaces it with something potentially fun and an experience of a lifetime.

I also very much prefer the lottery example, and the fact that someone on HN would still do a handover doesn't change that fact.

[JaumeGreen]

People would care at a personal level, but the show must go on.

I had to take a sudden leave the week before, and my coworkers, and boss cared at a personal level. And while most of my tasks were taken care of by them some weren't, and I had to rush Monday morning when I got back.

This talk is not about personal feelings, even though it could include "do a memorial for the lost person", but it's about all the needed work that must go on on any scenario.

You should understand that people should keep going on their lifes once you are not there, and that is good. If they think kindly of you after your passing depends on your relationship during life, not on any company preparation scenario.

[wegfawefgawefg]

Not that I am trying to make you upset, but I personally find this level of sensetivity in people annoying.

Life and death metaphors are my right to enjoy and share irreverently as the mortal being I am.

[serial_dev]

You can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing if my manager says "we won't know how to fix a bug in the xyz service if you were hit and killed by the bus", my response will be "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I die".

Take it like this to understand that mine was aimed to be constructive criticism:

Stop reminding the people who work at your stupid company, doing all your stupid scrum bs ceremonies that if they died and left the wife and children behind, you would be really worried about Tom needing two days to fix a bug in the iOS watch application, whereas it would take you only two hours. Again, you are free to do whatever you want, but if you keep reminding me that none of this bs what I'm doing here really matters to me, don't be surprised that I quit as soon as possible.

[skeeter2020]

but the manager is obviously (unless they are very, very bad) using a metaphor (that you don't like). By responding literally, what you're really saying is "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I LEAVE MY CURRENT RESPONSIBILITIES" regardless of why. It sounds like you have extreme trust issues with your manager if they can't make a (pretty benign) verbal mis-step with you, without this sort of response, and your follow up suggests you're in a really bad space. I can't believe it's not visible and leaking into other aspects of your work and interactions.

[serial_dev]

I'm okay now, thank you.

I did have a previous workplace, though, where they couldn't stop yapping about the bus factor and I disliked that phrase because it kept reminding me that one day I die and am wasting one more hour of my living days in a pointless retrospective that will have no positive effect on anything.

[lelanthran]

> You can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing if my manager says "we won't know how to fix a bug in the xyz service if you were hit and killed by the bus", my response will be "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I die".

So? The company isn't going to let all their employees starve to death out of compassion for the one that did die.

They know you don't give a fuck about what happens after you're dead, but they're still alive, and they have to keep things running so that they can continue eating.

Telling people that you don't care what effect your death has on them is a pretty good way to indicate how selfish you are.

[wegfawefgawefg]

I agree with you. But if you hate the poduct, and you hate scrumlords, and you hate your job, and you think the world would be better off if everyone at your company went on to spend their life working on something else.

It may not be selfish to feel an emotion giving you a background hint about reality. There are hungry children in the world, Im not selfish just because I dont want to eat fermented soybeans.

[arcanemachiner]

I died reading this comment.

[bombela]

But did you hand over your knowledge first?

[mnsc]

So you would be OK if I used "abducted and gang raped for so long that you come out seemingly alive and physically intact but your mind has broke and you enter a catatonic state and can't do a handover" as an example? Because if you are not one of those "sensitive people" you should be able to focus on the "can't do a handover" part of the scenario and not get caught up in the gruesome part?

And before you ask, yes I enjoy being overly graphic like this on the pseudonumoyous internet to exaggerate my points but I wouldn't do this irl. That is hypocritical of me.

[mirekrusin]

Depends if aliens were attractive?

[mnsc]

Yeah I realize that "abducted" could suggest aliens, I was thinking more along the lines of Mexican drug cartel style abduction where your raping and being left alive is a wake up call to your partner in the police force that has turned the wrong stones. And the dudes doing the raping is not pretty. But the point is you are not able to do a proper handover, remember?

[mirekrusin]

Why do you feel the need to go into details? "bus factor" is well known concept, it doesn't focus on details how the head disintegrates etc.

[mnsc]

See my other reply...

[skeeter2020]

The fact that you only respond like this anonymously should answer your original question/not-a-question.

from a more practical perspective: No, because you're replacing a well-understood metaphor with something that is unknown, juvenile and stupid, removing the value we get from shared language constructs.

[mnsc]

By exaggerating the example and moving out of shared constructs I was trying to get wegfaw... to see how it is to be "annoyingly sensitive". That even though "hit by a bus" is "well-understood", it could still invoke very graphic memories if for example someone actually has lost someone in a bus accident. Sometimes words are not just words.

But i could imagine someone who states that it's his "right" to be as irreverent as he likes to whomever he wants to is not open to the concept of other people's perspective.

And just to be clear, I wasn't saying that you should use my example instead. :D

[wegfawefgawefg]

To be honest if you said that in a meeting I would laugh and immediatly want to make friends with you.

For me this sort of signaling isn't a sign of aggressive anticooperation, but a sign to me you see through bullshit, will point out wrongdoings, and will be candid. It doesn't evoke disgust or discomfort. It feels honest and friendly.

In the opposite case, bussiness casual english feels cold and disingenuous to me. Like reading apologies by GPT. I feel it as annoying insincerity. (I give a pass to anyone over 40, and usually find in private they are actually human after all.)

Different strokes.

[coldtea]

Well, before everybody got sensitive I'd be OK with that too. It's not even very different from real world teasing talk and examples that were used by actual dev teams before the cult of HR grew.

And of course it's a strawman exaggerated version of the common "hit by a bus" idiom.

[rrr_oh_man]

> it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service

Story from this week:

Manager at large-ish IT support company, visibly distraught, tells their manager that one of her direct reports got cancer.

Response: "Oh, and I thought something bad happened, like the direct report quit."

[manfre]

Sorry you have to work with a toxic manager.

[jpc0]

Got cancer ranges from will be out of office a few times a month for a few months to a year through to won't be here next month.

You are reading a lot out of words read on an internet screen. This manager may very well be toxic, they may also just not be able to express emotion in the same way and very well went above and beyond putting everything in place for said employee to receive all the medical support they need, mental and physical.

We don't know and for all we know OP is in a bad space and completely misread the situation.

This whole comment is devil's advocate, you can make the same argument for the exact opposite and of course your personal experience matters but leave the airing of dirty laundry out of public forums and if I do the same I encourage anyone to call me out on it.

[Ma8ee]

> the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service.

While it might be uncomfortable to be reminded of, it is in most cases true.

The company isn’t your family or your friends, and most managers adhere to the doctrine that the single important responsibility of the company is to create value for the stock holders.

[coldtea]

>because it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service.

That will exactly be the key worry of the management.

We've had team members lost like that - and that was the worry.

They'll still feel sorry, say their condolensces, and might even go to the funeral, but in the end, the work continues - almost immediately.

[bluGill]

if there is a backup plan then management can care about your death. If there isn't one and you die they can't care or enough to even attend your funeral as neeping things running will consume them.

[tome]

> This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died apart from the fact that only you know how to do x and y.

An alternative interpretation is "we have to keep doing x and y to earn our living, and it's doubly difficult because not only did you know how to do them but we're all having difficulty coping with your passing".

[yakshaving_jgt]

> This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died

I don’t agree that the phrase implies that at all.