[iamthirsty]

> COVID-19 can cause brain damage including loss of brain tissue, small blood vessels, and merged brain cells. In some patients, perhaps many, there is also damage to the immune system.

Now that, I did not know. Crazy how much damage COVID can actually do.

[vundercind]

I suspect lots of viruses do tons of long-term damage in at least some cases, but it’s just less-studied or comes up less in the media. Flu, colds, hand and foot, all that stuff.

Though even allowing that, it’s still possible Covid-19 is worse than most viruses, as far as that sort of damage goes.

[Animats]

The big 2024 National Academies consensus paper says that they see similar long term damage from chronic fatigue syndrome and several rare diseases, but don't mention this as an outcome from more common viruses.[1] (Skip ahead to the summary).

The big open question is cumulative damage from multiple COVID-19 infections.[2] There are now many people who have had COVID more than once. (US: 60% at least once, maybe 11% more than once.) A few people have had it many more times, but that seems to involve some pre-existing condition. A VA study of older veterans indicates that cumulative damage is real in older adults. As time goes on, there will be more previously healthy people who have had COVID multiple times, and this question will be answered the hard way.

[1] https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/27756/chapter/1

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/well/live/covid-reinfecti...

[rapjr9]

It's been known for a long time and is called post-viral syndrome and post-acute infection syndrome:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute_infection_syndrome

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326619

Measles for example wipes out the immune systems memory of everything it has learned to defend against, leaving people newly vulnerable to everything they were immune to before:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-...

There's a good chance that a lot of the "mystery diseases" are due to longer lasting damage from viruses, to organs and to the immune system, including ordinary colds and flu. Colds and flu are probably spread via the air also, yet this also remains unstudied (otherwise known as "there is no evidence") and hospitals don't take precautions for most patients, probably because the cost would be large to treat the air in all hospital rooms. It would mean ending practices like putting two patients in each room as well. I think that in the past a lot was overlooked as being too complex to deal with ("we can't cure flu, it mutates too fast") or too costly (but so was mapping DNA), or both (drugs personalized to each persons DNA) so a certain amount of death and disability was allowed and drugs and surgery statistically only work for some people (see "number needed to treat", NNT). Now we have better tools and understanding and these things should change.

[DANmode]

> because the cost would be large to treat the air in all hospital rooms.

It would not.

Compared to the rest of hospital maintenance costs, UV-C hydrogen peroxide generators for the HVAC system are cheap, and effective.

[jerlam]

Even if Covid-19 was similar in terms of causing damage, its high transmissibility and mutability means that it's worse on a population level.

[nostrebored]

That's not true, as you have no idea what the distribution of complications is for almost any illness... you need to understand the complication distribution and the transmissibility in order to judge impact.

[graeme]

They were speaking hypothetically. Even if denotes a scenario where the impact per infection is equal.

In such a scenario Covid has worse impact due to the higher transmissibility. People seem to get it every 6-12 months. Flu infection is much less frequent.

[nostrebored]

Your assumption is that the impact per infection is equal or worse.

I think that there's no real basis to assume that, especially when young. I would expect the distribution of flu complications (externally validated, not based on self-reports) is actually worse.

[taeric]

I think the flu data is somewhat difficult here. Most people do not refer to having had it if they didn't get sick. Yet, studies are showing from a third to a half of people with the flu will be asymptomatic. Which, is kind of terrifying to me.

[graeme]

True, but Covid also has plenty of asymptomatic or low symptomatic cases. I’ve known a few who tested positive while reporting no symptoms.

A Chinese field study estimated people got the flu once every five years. It is simply much less contagious. Flu collapsed globally when countries put in place Covid precautions.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-31698038.amp

[MrVandemar]

I've heard Covid referred to in some quarters as "aerosolised HIV", which should be at least taken seriously, even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist. It's certainly easier to catch than HIV.

While it's useful to have a distinct name for the virus/disease, it really should have been called what it is: It's SARS-CoV-2 not Covid. SARS: severe acute respiratory syndrome.

I wear a n95 mask at work (medical practice) and I consistently wear one in shops, especially shopping centres. It's kept me safe so far.

[floren]

> I've heard Covid referred to in some quarters as "aerosolised HIV", which should be at least taken seriously, even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist.

I've heard it too and it's definitely one of the more deranged takes I've run into.

[MrVandemar]

To be clear, I do find it alarmist, but I take it seriously in the sense that it's definitely clear that Sars-cov-2 isn't "just a cold", and it's perhaps promotes a more healthy and cautious attitude to the virus in the face of the dangerous community apathy and dismissal, even in medical spaces.

[aakresearch]

In other words, "there would be no smoke without fire". I believe, personally, that this truism is a major cause of injustice and grief in the world, historically and at present time. It is absolutely fair and warranted to be skeptical in every possible way every time it is pronounced.

[MrVandemar]

No, that's not an accurate paraphrasing.

I want to be crystal clear about this:

* Sars-cov-2 is a new virus to us and research into is ongoing.

* It demonstratably has short and long term health effects, and some of those lead to death or disability (see TFA). Repeat infections cause further damage.

* It is an easy virus to catch.

With those factors I believe in erring on the side of caution, and am alarmed at the way the a serious public health problem has become politicised and polarised.

[asynchronous]

You’re saying you haven’t caught covid yet? That’s quite the claim. I’d suggest you just never had symptoms when you contracted.

[MrVandemar]

Covid 0 right here.

I work in a medical practice staffed by sane people so we had excellent infection control and procedures from even before the pandemic, and just doubled down on it. I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere. I'm an introvert and seldom socialise. My SO is susceptible to respiratory infections which motivates me to keep as safe as possible.

I haven't even had a cold.

[akira2501]

> which should be at least taken seriously

I don't take things said "in some quarters" seriously.

> even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist

It's alarmist to the point of being damaging to prevention efforts and to the mental health of the population in general.

> It's kept me safe so far.

Case in point.

[iamthirsty]

> I consistently wear one in shops, especially shopping centres.

...I don't know how I feel about this, honestly. I respect everyone's right to be as cautious how they want in their life and dress how they choose but after 4+ years I think those who haven't returned to not wearing masks 24/7 outside the home are being a little, uh -- I guess a word for it would be over-dramatic.

[classichasclass]

If nothing else, there are still legitimate medical risks to catching COVID for people who are immunocompromised (at minimum). A good mask lets them at least have less risk being out and about.

Plus, given how often it mutates, perhaps people just don't want to get sick again even if they don't have any long-term aftereffects.

[delecti]

I think being over-dramatic would depend on it being burdensome. Wearing a mask is pretty easy and unobtrusive.