[rayiner]

My point is that “Nazi germany” is a small subset of “expansionism” and the latter is widespread and mostly none of our business. Borders shift. It’s not America’s job to police whatever borders happened to exist at some arbitrary point in time all over the world.

[mpalmer]

> [expansionism] is widespread and mostly none of our business.

I know you understand how alliances work, so I'm really fascinated that thus far you appear to be studiously avoiding mention of the most consequential alliance in history, one which happens to have significant bearing on US involvement in the war in Ukraine.

[rayiner]

“Alliance” is just code for “Team America: World Police.” If everyone is our “ally” then we are just the world’s border police. Our real allies are the UK, Canada, France, Germany, and Japan. None of those countries are endangered by Putin. They were also not endangered by Iraq invading Kuwait, communists taking over Vietnam or Korea, whatever happened in the Balkans in the 1990s, and all those events that led to mistaken wars over the last 70 years.

[mpalmer]

Our "real" allies don't include NATO signatories? Germany isn't threatened by Russia?

Absolutely hilarious and ahistorical. Anyone playing the silly rhetorical games you're playing isn't trying to convince anyone with reasoned arguments.

[rayiner]

Most NATO members are not real allies. Turkey or Greece or Slovenia could fall into the ocean and it wouldn’t materially Americans. NATO had a purpose once, but it’s just become a vehicle other countries to outsource their defense to the U.S.

You want to talk about history? How about: for 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars that have sapped America’s wealth. Thats where your definition of “ally” has gotten us.

[dctoedt]

> Most NATO members are not real allies. ... [F]or 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars ....

If only we had a Star Trek TOS "Guardian of Forever" time portal to show us what wars were avoided by what you call American "interventionism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Foreve...

[JojoFatsani]

Hey we won the Persian Gulf War. Even if we didn’t pay the tab.

[mpalmer]

Hah. "My" definition. Okay. That you don't see the purpose of NATO today, or the importance of smaller member states to the overall alliance, is reason enough to call it a day.