Don't you find the timing of them suddenly allowing emulators suspicious? If it weren't for that alt app store, would the U.S. app store have emulators at all?
Until recently (that is, until today), Delta wasn't even available in the app store to begin with. And most likely it and that would still be without the alternative store, since Apple is only eventually allowing it to make a point.
Why did they do that? Did they just decide to after 6 years randomly with no inciting incident? Or did they decide to because they were being forced to allow alternative app stores which would allow emulator installation anyway?
I think it is important to point out that clearly there could be improvements to the App Store without opening it wide open.
However, this has nothing to do with my core problem here of now in the EU having no choice but to use an alternative store. When every other country can just download it from the App Store.
My problem here is not that alternative store exist. my problem is that we are already seeing a developer making the choice for me of where I can download the app from.
Which is why I replied with an article, if Apple was just focusing on "making a point" the previous emulator would not have been approved.
- Apple sees emulators as a potential market for alternative app stores and proactively chooses to allow them in the Apple App Store.
- This is a clear example of how competition in the app market place being a positive thing.
- Developer creates an alternative app marketplace, with an emulator as one of its main apps on launch, realizing the competition that forced Apple to update their rules to allow emulators in their own store.
I'm sorry you feel forced to download a separate app store, but don't you see how you in the end are benefitting from this change even without using the AltStore? Give it some time and you will probably have another emulator in the app store you can choose to download.
>I'm sorry you feel forced to download a separate app store, but don't you see how you in the end are benefitting from this change even without using the AltStore?
Not really, so far. Are there any game systems that don't require some level of special hardware to back them up? Dreamcast? I don't think I know anyone who has ever made themselves a 'backup copy' of a game they've purchased, much less then played that backup copy on another device. I'm sure they exist, but in numbers even smaller than linux isos on BitTorrent.
This is a little bit apple's fault - if any app is distributed outside the app store, the developer now has to pay a fee per-install even for installs from the app store (50¢ per install!). He could have chosen not to put Delta in AltStore and only put it in the app store, then it could be free on the app store. Either way, you don't get a choice. You install from the app store, or you install from AltStore, but it can't be on both because of apple policy. This is what apple wants, and is why the fee exists. Hopefully it violates the DMA and they'll be forced to change that.
Why is it not available in the EU? Is this just the Delta developer wanting to promote/push people to their App Store, or is there some other reason e.g. Apple don’t allow the app in the EU? I’m a bit confused why it would be on alternative store at all, if Apple now allow these apps… can someone ELI5?
(I’m in the UK so can download from the App Store, finally a benefit of you-know-what lol)
I think they cannot put it on both stores per Apple rules. And since the Delta developer is the same person as the Alt Store developer he chose to put it on his own store.
I see! I guess I don’t understand why the developer would bother with their own store if the App Store now allows emulators, and the Delta app is free - but I guess this was only a recent change, maybe allowed by Apple purely as a way to try to stop people going to alt stores?
I guess maybe the developer feels it’s their duty to follow the alt store thing through to keep pressure on Apple? Or maybe they stand to make money (either now or in future with other apps) from their store?
Until now, emulators have been rejected under this rule
> 2.5.2 Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app, including other apps
I.e. "all the code this app ever runs has to be there when the app goes to app review"
This rule change on January 29 allowed for mini games and streaming games
> 4.7 Mini apps, mini games, streaming games, chatbots, and plug-ins: Apps may offer certain software that is not embedded in the binary, specifically mini apps and games, streaming games, chatbots, and plug-ins.
And then specifically this addition on April 10
> 4.7 [...] Additionally, retro game console emulator apps can offer to download games
This is exactly what I have been worried about and people tried to explain to tell me that, no this doesn't remove choice from me as a user.
When in fact it does, if I was in the EU (and if the US does something similar, likely here) if I wanted to download this I would have to use their store. The choice is being made for me by the developer.
It didn't take long to already have an example of this happening and bigger companies will likely follow suit.
So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?
Because... the developer didn't swallow Apple's fee for you?
Your decision is to pay Apple's fee that they claim is fair, or not use the app. I don't really see how we can shake our fists at the developers and publishers for not sponsoring the distribution of their FOSS app. It's very clearly the Unity-esque installation fee that is the problem here.
They tried to put their app on the App store since 2016! Apple refused, for EIGHT years! Then they developed their own version of an indie app store so that they can actually distribute the emulator because of that.
Apple only allowed it to be published on the app store TODAY, just the day of the release of the AltStore because they are trying to make a point, the malice is on Apple's side here. But the comments here make it sounds like it works on their all most hardcore fanbase.
I think it was last week we were talking about a different emulator that was approved, so let's not try to jump to conclusions about why Apple may or may not have done something.
I have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple and that this wasn't just instead an simultaneous release on both platforms by the developer.
Yes Apple did not previously allow this until they changed their policy recently to allow emulation (which I think was about a month ago).
This does not change the fact that the developer is choosing to put the app on the App Store everywhere except for the EU, and in the EU you have to use their store.
> I have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple and that this wasn't just instead an simultaneous release on both platforms by the developer.
See this commit from 3 years ago[1]! On Delta's Repo:
> Delta was originally developed under the impression Apple would allow it into the App Store. Unfortunately Apple later changed their minds, leaving me no choice but to find a new way to distribute Delta. Long story short, this led me to create AltStore, which now serves as the official way to install Delta onto your device.
The main reason why you “have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple” is that because you did not want to see it, because it goes against your believes (believes that have been manufactured by Apple's propaganda machine).
> Yes Apple did not previously allow this until they changed their policy recently to allow emulation (which I think was about a month ago).
And guess why their changed their policy? Because of DMA put them in an untenable posture.
> This does not change the fact that the developer is choosing to put the app on the App Store everywhere except for the EU, and in the EU you have to use their store.
That's a genuine “fuck you Apple” move, which is understandable given how much “fuck you Delta” Apple gave them before, but it's also a bit of a problem. But here again this is 100% on Apple! They can 100% ban this kind of things by adding a policy to the app store that says “If you want to distribute on the App store outside of the EU, you have to provide your software on the app store in the EU as well” even if that doesn't prevent the release on an alternative store. The main reason why they don't do that, is because it would ruin their FUD about this exact situation.
You are being manipulated by a trillion dollar company, that not only hate your individual freedom, but also wants to make sure you hate it yourself so you never ask for it. And unfortunately that propaganda keeps proving highly effective…
> So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?
You can blame Apple here, by adding a fee per install, if you choose to go outside the appstore, you pretty much have to remove the free appstore option otherwise why would anybody use the other one?
The weird economics Apple has created discourages using both.
Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here.
Give users that choice, that is all I am asking for here. Actually give users a choice instead of removing the choice from them. Which at this point in time, that choice is being removed from the user.
It's not that they are fine with charging, it's that they have no choice, they are charging the bare minimum to cover the new Apple fees.
Sure they could create a paid appstore option only in the EU (if that's not against the appstore guidelines somehow, I don't know) but that might not align well with their strategy.
Additionally I also feel it would kind of be a bad PR on their side as well to charge more on the appstore in the EU.
> Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here
Alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install starting from the very first one. Apps distributed in alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install after the first 1m.
The CTF is an annual fee.
In this instance, the app store developer is the same as the app developer, so the yearly fee for the store is being used to cover both sets of fees.
> And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation?
See the sibling response.
> Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.
As of… TODAY! Day of the release of the alternative store. What a marvelous coincidence for an emulator that has been submitted years ago on the App store and blocked by Apple for all this time!
Yes, Apple recently changed their policy about emulators … as a result of the exact same Digital Market Act that allowed this alternative store to exist. Again, this isn't a coincidence, it's just how the consequences of the regulation are unfolding and how Apple is trying to cope with it (in a surprisingly clumsy way).