[nerdjon]

Right?

This is exactly what I have been worried about and people tried to explain to tell me that, no this doesn't remove choice from me as a user.

When in fact it does, if I was in the EU (and if the US does something similar, likely here) if I wanted to download this I would have to use their store. The choice is being made for me by the developer.

It didn't take long to already have an example of this happening and bigger companies will likely follow suit.

So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?

[talldayo]

Because... the developer didn't swallow Apple's fee for you?

Your decision is to pay Apple's fee that they claim is fair, or not use the app. I don't really see how we can shake our fists at the developers and publishers for not sponsoring the distribution of their FOSS app. It's very clearly the Unity-esque installation fee that is the problem here.

[nerdjon]

Um... no where did I mention anything about the fee...

They could have put the app on the app store on the EU and on their store. But did not.

[littlestymaar]

They tried to put their app on the App store since 2016! Apple refused, for EIGHT years! Then they developed their own version of an indie app store so that they can actually distribute the emulator because of that.

Apple only allowed it to be published on the app store TODAY, just the day of the release of the AltStore because they are trying to make a point, the malice is on Apple's side here. But the comments here make it sounds like it works on their all most hardcore fanbase.

[nerdjon]

I think it was last week we were talking about a different emulator that was approved, so let's not try to jump to conclusions about why Apple may or may not have done something.

I have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple and that this wasn't just instead an simultaneous release on both platforms by the developer.

Yes Apple did not previously allow this until they changed their policy recently to allow emulation (which I think was about a month ago).

This does not change the fact that the developer is choosing to put the app on the App Store everywhere except for the EU, and in the EU you have to use their store.

[littlestymaar]

> I have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple and that this wasn't just instead an simultaneous release on both platforms by the developer.

See this commit from 3 years ago[1]! On Delta's Repo:

> Delta was originally developed under the impression Apple would allow it into the App Store. Unfortunately Apple later changed their minds, leaving me no choice but to find a new way to distribute Delta. Long story short, this led me to create AltStore, which now serves as the official way to install Delta onto your device.

The main reason why you “have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple” is that because you did not want to see it, because it goes against your believes (believes that have been manufactured by Apple's propaganda machine).

> Yes Apple did not previously allow this until they changed their policy recently to allow emulation (which I think was about a month ago).

And guess why their changed their policy? Because of DMA put them in an untenable posture.

> This does not change the fact that the developer is choosing to put the app on the App Store everywhere except for the EU, and in the EU you have to use their store.

That's a genuine “fuck you Apple” move, which is understandable given how much “fuck you Delta” Apple gave them before, but it's also a bit of a problem. But here again this is 100% on Apple! They can 100% ban this kind of things by adding a policy to the app store that says “If you want to distribute on the App store outside of the EU, you have to provide your software on the app store in the EU as well” even if that doesn't prevent the release on an alternative store. The main reason why they don't do that, is because it would ruin their FUD about this exact situation.

You are being manipulated by a trillion dollar company, that not only hate your individual freedom, but also wants to make sure you hate it yourself so you never ask for it. And unfortunately that propaganda keeps proving highly effective…

[1] https://github.com/rileytestut/Delta/blob/abd7338a08a4948c55...

[nerdjon]

> The main reason why you “have not seen anything that the release on the App Store was held up by apple” is that because you did not want to see it, because it goes against your believes (believes that have been manufactured by Apple's propaganda machine).

I really feel like it should be obvious that I am talking about since apple made the policy change regarding emulators. It is well understood that before about a month or so ago there was a policy against emulators.

I am talking about since that policy change went into effect and the software was in place for it (as in the iOS version was rolled out).

Apple had allowed am emulator on the App Store within the last couple weeks, which doesn't line up with your conspiracy theory that the only reason this one was allowed was because of their own store.

And no this is not 100% on apple. The developer could have put it on the App Store in all regions. Again, Apple approved an emulator recently.

[realusername]

> So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?

You can blame Apple here, by adding a fee per install, if you choose to go outside the appstore, you pretty much have to remove the free appstore option otherwise why would anybody use the other one?

The weird economics Apple has created discourages using both.

[nerdjon]

Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here.

Give users that choice, that is all I am asking for here. Actually give users a choice instead of removing the choice from them. Which at this point in time, that choice is being removed from the user.

[realusername]

It's not that they are fine with charging, it's that they have no choice, they are charging the bare minimum to cover the new Apple fees.

Sure they could create a paid appstore option only in the EU (if that's not against the appstore guidelines somehow, I don't know) but that might not align well with their strategy.

Additionally I also feel it would kind of be a bad PR on their side as well to charge more on the appstore in the EU.

[oarsinsync]

> Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here

Alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install starting from the very first one. Apps distributed in alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install after the first 1m.

The CTF is an annual fee.

In this instance, the app store developer is the same as the app developer, so the yearly fee for the store is being used to cover both sets of fees.

[goosedragons]

Whose fault is it that it has to be a paid app store? Blame Apple for their ridiculous policies that essentially require it.

[nerdjon]

I never mentioned anything about the fee, just that you have to use a different store.

[littlestymaar]

A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today!

And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden.

[nerdjon]

> A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today!

And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation?

> And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden.

Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.

[goosedragons]

It was available on the not PAL AltStore. AltStore was originally created to distribute Delta because Apple wouldn't allow it.

[littlestymaar]

> And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation?

See the sibling response.

> Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.

As of… TODAY! Day of the release of the alternative store. What a marvelous coincidence for an emulator that has been submitted years ago on the App store and blocked by Apple for all this time!

Yes, Apple recently changed their policy about emulators … as a result of the exact same Digital Market Act that allowed this alternative store to exist. Again, this isn't a coincidence, it's just how the consequences of the regulation are unfolding and how Apple is trying to cope with it (in a surprisingly clumsy way).