[paxys]

If you get rejected by the first 5-10 companies you apply to then you need to take a step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, because spamming the same resume to 1000 more companies isn't going to change anything. 5 strong leads is infinitely better than 1000 weak ones.

[ryandrake]

Negative, ghost rider.

I’ve had a fairly consistent 100:10:1 application:interview:offer ratio for about 25 years, including bull and bear markets. It’s a numbers game. There is likely nothing wrong with his resume. You need to have a very wide top-of-the-funnel.

There are probably a few Captains Of Industry here on HN who can send 5 resumes out and get 5 offers. These are multiple-standard-deviation outliers.

[atrettel]

I've had roughly that same application:interview:offer ratio for the last 5 years. It's made me realize that it's a numbers game too.

I've gotten comments from colleagues about how putting out a hundred applications seems kinda desperate, but with the ratios that I've experienced, the only way that you can make the odds that you get a job palatable is to increase the number of applications. It's easy to run the binomial distribution analysis to prove this.

[hiddencost]

Before this round, I received a job offer for every application.

I don't need a job right now, but I'm applying to jobs because I see the writing on the wall.

Despite very strong, and publicly verifiable, bonafides, I didn't even get a response from a number of very good (but very large) companies. The smaller and more exclusive companies are responding at a much higher rate, strangely.

So if I'm making it past the harder resume screens, I have to assume that for larger companies, they're just completely failing to read my resume.

[Merad]

I've been in the industry for 10 years now. If memory serves I've applied to about 20 companies, had 8 interviews, and 5 offers resulting in 3 jobs. I don't doubt your experience, but it's not a universal truth of how the world works.

[ohyes]

I have sent exactly 3 applications in my career and been hired 4 times.

[ZoomerCretin]

Then you're either not American, very well-connected, or you graduated during a bull market and always had the "right" amount of experience.

[ryandrake]

The only way I can even imagine this to be possible is 1. Your name is John Carmack or Ken Thompson or 2. You send your application out at the top of every single hiring bubble in history. Sorry, but I almost just don’t believe OP. It seems totally ridiculous and opposite to my lived experience over decades.

Ive probably sent roughly 500 resumes out over a 25 year career and got 5 job offers. Never even two simultaneous offers allowing me to choose. The ratio has been very, very consistent for me.

[ohyes]

I’m willing to believe my experience is a statistical outlier and I’m definitely not looking forward to the next time I need to look for a job.

[ohyes]

American, not well connected, graduated right after the housing market crash, so I suppose it could be the last one.

I don’t quite believe it myself (with people proffering 500 applications just to get one position) but I had a similar experience with online dating where my success rate was probably about 50% getting a positive response (and everyone seemed to bemoan their inability to get anyone to even talk to them).

Maybe this is just luck but I’ve also never been trying to work for google/microsoft/amazon.

I don’t consider myself particularly bright so I’m definitely not Carmack, and I’ve never seen the fabled 300-500k engineering positions, so my salary has been pretty modest for the duration of my career (always been comfortable but, well-maintained Honda civic money not Mercedes money). I just kind of try to make myself useful wherever I go.

When I apply for a job it has either been because a recruiter or former coworker asked me to, or because I was interested in what the company was working on, or both. I don’t go for jobs where I’m expected to performatively solve leetcode problems.

I get nervous around new people but I can get through a technical interview by knowing my stuff. I’m not particularly charismatic or anything.

Maybe I’m just lucky with target selection? I’ve always been about quality over quantity. I’m reasonably good at writing but nothing special.

It could be a sample size issue, my number of applications is not statistically significant compared to the overall market during the last 20 years or whatever.

[Izkata]

> American, not well connected, graduated right after the housing market crash, so I suppose it could be the last one.

Maybe timing? Because your experience is roughly what I also remember in 2010/2011. Only applied to like 5 jobs and got one.

[ohdannyboy]

My company is hiring a senior Python dev and we've rejected at least 95% of applications so far. Many weren't even Python devs, most weren't senior (no, getting that title 2 years out of college doesn't count) and some had resumes so off-putting we just said "this person is full of shit." We actually discussed adding a survey question that read "Answer 'no' to this question" to see if they even read the page. So many freaking shotgun applicants.

I wonder how many of those people are saying "I've applied to X jobs and nothing!" Had they gotten feedback or maybe read the job listing they wouldn't have added our posting to their volume count.

[jacknews]

The problem as an applicant is that after sending, say 30,40,50 carefully considered applications, spending up to several hours on each, and getting almost no response, you change tactics.

There's no point crafting a love letter which won't even be read - just stick a bunch of bullet points together and broadcast.

[ohdannyboy]

Several hours definitely isn't required. If you are a good match for a job your resume should already be a stand out, so all you need to do is read the listing and submit your resume (plus whatever HR system hoops they make you jump through). Anecdotally, I typically get a high response rate when I'm choosey and have never wrote a cover letter or anything specific to the job in question. Why would I need to write a love letter for a position I'm well qualified for? I'm the prize, not them haha.

Changing tactics to blindly applying for positions regardless of qualifications is just a waste of time. I for one wouldn't want an engineer who solves problems like that on the team.

[jacknews]

"I for one wouldn't want an engineer who solves problems like that on the team. "

I guess this is some high-handed attempt at a put-down.

I think you have to consider what game job-hunting/filling is.

IMHO it's essentially quite similar to mating.

In that case, you see all kinds of strategies, tailored to the environment, and other realities.

Have you thought about why you're getting all these applications that clearly don't match?

Is it because people are stupid, or lazy? Or do you think there might be some logic behind a strategy of just sending out semi-customized applications in search of a match, knowing that most are simply ignored anyway?

I mean, someone who thinks through why things are the way they are, and what to do about it, even if they can't get to an answer, is someone I would want on my team.

[ohdannyboy]

I guess that argument makes sense, but then don't expect a high return rate or complain "I've applied to THOUSANDS and nothing! What gives?"

The last time I was in the market was September and I didn't have much trouble (I got a solid offer but decided it wasn't time to move yet). If things have changed in the past 6 months then yeah, I don't have firsthand experience in todays market. But I always see people complaining about this kind of stuff so I'm used to writing it off. If you think its gotten that bad I'll take your word.

I'm also in the market as a senior, went to a big name university and have been at a few companies that everyone knows so my experience being choosey may be different than others.

    I guess this is some high-handed attempt at a put-down.

If someone is having trouble getting a response and answers by "well if I do it more with even less filtering then maybe one will come through" I think less of their problem solving. Although I am persuaded by what you said originally so I guess its not as terrible of a strategy as I was first thinking.

I would also compare it to mating. If you're on a dating app and write love letters to every girl who's profile you like you will get roughly 0 dates (this being the "spend hours applying" approach). If you are confident, believe you're the prize and try to find girls you're a match with then you will have a lot more success.

[shrimp_emoji]

> Is it because people are stupid, or lazy? Or

Stop right there. Yes.

[jacknews]

It's like that anecdote about a*holes

When everyone you meet is an a*hole, maybe you're the a*hole

[dr_kiszonka]

I ask people to rename their resume file to follow a very specific filename template. Maybe 1/3 of the applicants do it and I think I have had more luck with them than with those who ignored my instructions. (It is a simple template and as long as folks at least try to follow it, it is fine with me.)

[giancarlostoro]

Python dev to work on what? ;)

[10xDev]

Definitely not true in my experience. I have witnessed very little consistency, it seems most applications are simply automatically filtered using many variables that no one is going to figure out.

But you could argue that applications are automatically filtered because of the spam, but at the same time if you don't spam depending on your position you are a lost cause. It is terrible system that feeds on itself.

[bluGill]

Right, but you should figure out what those variables are.

[esafak]

You don't have any feedback to improve your approach other than the fact that you did not get a response.

[xyzelement]

True - but in most cases you can get feedback another way.

Case in point, a buddy of mine is around 50, superstar programmer/manager and never really had to look for a job - was always headhunted - until getting laid off from a bank about a year ago.

I took one look at his resume and it was obvious to me that it was basically the same resume he had since College, with new jobs tacked on but never revamped to read like a "super senior resume." Which makes sense because he never had to rely on it to make a first impression.

It took me about 20 minutes with Google Docs comments to tag up his resume, took him about 2 days to totally revamp it, and go from "a guy with 30 experience who looks junior on paper" to "holly shit this is the engineering leader we need."

Perhaps coincidentally but he landed a role with a hedge fund very quickly.

That's obviously a personal anecdote, but if your job applications are failing to get traction, find SOME way to get an external perspective.

[ohdannyboy]

Is there anyone in your network you can ask? Even reddit is willing to give you feedback.

[evilduck]

If someone can stomach 1000 cold contacts and no results, that person should consider switching to sales.

[ZoomerCretin]

Are you speaking from experience in a job market not in the US? This is absolutely the experience of junior engineers.