[protoman3000]

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable.

Can anybody relate?

[bernds74]

Racing sims are the killer app, because depth perception really helps with sense of speed, and tight corners on a monitor are often outside the field of view and you can't just turn your head to look at them.

Even then, it's not something I can do indefinitely. I've played GT7 on a friend's PSVR2, and sometimes elevation changes in particular tend to mess up the brain for a moment. It's somewhat disconcerting. Also, as someone who wears glasses, there's just no way to make the headset fit entirely correctly, and it tends to slip over time and the view becomes blurry.

Outside of that... control schemes are the major issue for me. You can't just blindly walk around in your room without falling over things, so movement is highly unnatural in VR unless you're in a cockpit. And the various attempts at making the player manipulate something with those hand controllers are just embarrassingly bad. I think this is one of the reason why so many VR games feel like toys you play with once before discarding them as a failed experiment.

The only other killer app are pinball simulations. It's surprising how much depth perception can make it so much clearer what the ball is doing, and the downsides of VR don't matter because you're stationary and only need two buttons.

I like racing sims, so I was interested in VR in the early days, but after experiencing it, I decided for now that I just don't want the associated hassle.

[starky]

Mind that the two racing games I've tried were Redout and Trackmania Turbo, which have some more extreme movements like loops and high speeds, but being sitting in a VR headset and not feeling the accelerations that match your movement is just a recipe for motion sickness even if you don't normally feel motion sick. Add in the shitty FoV in all current VR headsets and I think we are a far way from that being a killer app.

For me the only apps that kept any of my interest are rhythm games like Beat Saber or Pistol Whip.

[ShamelessC]

No offense, but I think you either don’t understand how niche racing sims are or don’t understand that “killer app” is meant to convey an app which justifies the existence of the device for a broad segment of the market.

And, if anything, Half Life Alyx remains the killer _gaming_ app (and it probably isn’t either if I’m being honest).

[LordDragonfang]

While Alyx is definitely up there in the best VR gaming has to offer, the real killer app has clearly been Beatsaber (hitting both the "gaming" and "workout" use cases). Some quick googling suggests that half of all Quest users have bought a copy, which is insane.

[ShamelessC]

Ah, indeed I forgot about Beatsaber. You're definitely correct there.

[dylan604]

> the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable.

to me, this is the entire point of VR. you want to virtually see something other than what your eyes can see in reality. a situation where you want to be fully immersed into this other space. i totally buy into that.

the confusion of use to me is the AR aspect of it. that's where the limitations take center stage. the limited FOV can't be ignored in AR. my brain buys into the suspension of disbelief for VR, but for AR my brain knows it's my real world, just limited.

[jsheard]

I'm open to the idea of VR gaming but the industry just can't seem to break out of the chicken-and-egg problem of hardly any content being made, because hardly anyone has the hardware, because there's hardly any content. Even with Meta and Sony throwing money around for exclusives their libraries are barren, and PC VR is even worse since Valve isn't interested in subsidising game development beyond their one big first party title. It's been this way for years with little change and it stands to get even worse when Meta finally gets tired of losing billions of dollars each year to keep Reality Labs afloat.

Apples current approach to VR doesn't seem like it's going to help the gaming situation much either, since they opted to rely entirely on hand tracking which is much less accurate and capable than the standard-ish controllers used on every other VR platform. Releasing a game on Apple Vision opens up more potential buyers, but comes at the cost of having to accommodate a very limited lowest common denominator input method.

[ARandumGuy]

I own 2 VR headsets, primarily for gaming. I've had a lot of fun with stuff like Beat Saber or Superhot VR, and Half Life Alyx is an incredible experience that could only exit with VR.

Despite that, VR is pretty much just a cool toy. Yes there are cool and interesting experiences in VR, but there are also a lot of limitations, not all of which are technological. I think VR will stay around for a while, but I don't see it moving past the "cool toy" stage anytime soon.

[J_Shelby_J]

The fact that superhot is mentioned so little here tells me what i should think of the opinions of these posters. Q3 + superhot is an amazing experience. It’s fun for social game nights and also decent exercise.

AVPro is the best thing to happen to Q3 because the Q3 is ready for prime time at a price point people want and, despite metas reputation, with an open enough platform to support general computing. If you aren’t a gamer or aren’t consuming 3d content, yeah VR isn’t for you. But otherwise, yeah it’s a pretty cool experience for the price.

[iancmceachern]

I'm in the same boat. I have no desire for these. If anything, I'm trying to reduce my screen time and increase my access and accessibility to the real world. This feels like the exact opposite.

[divan]

I'm not a gamer, but I found shooter games in VR to be extremely cool for procrastination. I can play Contractors for hours.

Last winter I had limited opportunities to excercise, so I tried FitXR and it turned out to be insanely engaging. Reality can't give that level of engagement and multisensory feedback. I did boxing and HIIT daily, and while I don't like to sweat like crazy in my living room, that was extremely positive experience that helped me get through the winter.

[jwells89]

This is a bit of how I feel about Beat Saber modded with community maps.

It’s engaging and challenging in a way little else I can do at home is, and it’s pretty good for getting some movement and cardio in to boot. The days I play it’s almost always for an hour and if it weren’t for physical exhaustion I could go longer (once when live-streaming my play to and audio chatting with a family member, I played for closer to two hours straight thanks to having something to distract me from my tiredness).

[divan]

Oh yeah, I listen Prodigy only in Beat Saber now :)

[divan]

Shooters are less energy demanding though. Even a bit disappointingly so. I even used to put gym hand weights so my muscles get more work to do while playing (also helps with stabilizing the gun, as I don't have gunstock).

Contractors demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjRRoYwPTQ

[compscistd]

For someone who lives in a very small apartment, my WFH setup takes an annoyingly large part of my living space. If I can build a comfortable work environment in VR/AR, I can get rid of my work desk entirely and keep a strong separation between work and my personal life (take headset off and put it + keyboard + mouse away in the closet => done with work). I get to even take it with me so I could work at any desk (in a hotel room, at my parents', etc.)

Even now, I'd love a solution to easily put up and teardown a monitor on my dinner table so I can get rid of my desk.

[sunflowerfly]

I believe he nailed it with the live sports argument.if Apple can get that going people will buy it for that alone.

I have personally wanted VR for flight sims. It is jarring to have a screen full of instruments or looking out the window, but difficult to do both without a crazy physical setup that I do not want in my office. VR solves this by simply moving your head, the same as pilots do in real life.

[BryantD]

Live sports is potentially huge. I am sure companies like Second Spectrum are thinking about how to use their player tracking tech plus traditional video coverage to provide a real time PoV shot from anywhere on the court/field.

[noneeeed]

In terms of straight VR I'm completely with you. As someone who doesn't game they hold no attraction.

The disconnection is also my big issue with VR.

However, as an AR platform, whether it's pass-through or some future passive system, I can see a time when I might get one. I can imagine a significantly better version of the VisionPro that replaces my laptop as my "big" computing device.

I think the form factor is the feature. In the same way that my tablet doesn't do anything my laptop can't do, but it's form factor makes it useable in different scenarios. I know people who exclusively use iPad Pros as their all-purpose "big" computing device, never touching a laptop.

Before it becomes widespread I can see it being adopted in specialist situations, many of the same things that the Microsoft AR hardware was never good enough for. Hololens was amazing to experience, but no where near amazing enough to actually be that useful. Passthrough AR like the VisionPro might actually manage it.

I don't think it will become something everyone has, but it will fill a slot in the mix of technology for some people, along with smart-watches, phones, tablets, laptops and desktops. Each appeals to different people.

Now, whether the technology ever quite gets there is the big question for me. I think a lot has to improve in the hardware if they can ever make it something I would want to use on a daily basis.

[Almondsetat]

>disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings

which headsets are you referring to? surely not the ones in the article since they have very good passthrough

[adastra22]

Passthrough will never be good enough so as to get rid of the sense of disconnect.

[Almondsetat]

You seem to speak from experience, which headsets have you tried?

[adastra22]

It doesn’t matter. A perfect form factor like a contact lens or sunglasses would have the same issue. It’d psychologically be like walking around with a phone strapped to your eyeballs. Having screens be localized in physical space is a FEATURE.

[rauljordan2020]

I found the killer app for me with AVP: working. I have my screens in front of me while I'm in front a roller-standing desk with really nice passthrough being able to see my garden outside. Everything looks crisp and the music quality is excellent

[_justinfunk]

What kind of work do you do?

[rauljordan2020]

Software eng. It's been amazing to have my terminal, IDE , github in Safari on one side, apple music in the back, news tickers above the screen, and being able to resize, bring them anywhere with me

[_justinfunk]

Thanks.... I was hoping you'd say something that wasn't going to tempt me further.

[duxup]

I'm going to relate in a different way / non VR user way:

Once in a while I want to get into VR, but understanding all the options and etc makes my head spin and I quit on it, go back to other hobbies. Much of the discussion online, news stories (with any detail) and etc is all very "already knows the VR lay of the land / knee deep in it". It makes it difficult to understand / get the lay of the land. I'm almost burnt out just thinking about looking into it again.

Now if Apple provided a more affordable route in in the future, I know my consistent user experence with Apple would make that choice potentially a lot easier.

[reportgunner]

The killer app for VR is the novelty of putting it on for the first 15 minutes / first 2 hours (depending on if you suffer from motion sickness or not) imho. Thiking about it we would have VR predecessors in shape of screens attached to our forehead if this way of using technology was useful. We don't have that though so VR has nothing to replace.

PS: I bought a VR headset to check my bias and I don't use it because it's just uncomfortable to wear.

[idontknowifican]

i felt this way too. i did buy the AVP because of the 14 day return policy. i ended up using it four hours a day, which is all of my non meeting work time.

[klenwell]

I think the killer app will be online meetings. Online socializing really.

I work fully remote and Zoom/Meet works fine for meetings. But I kinda dread things like team happy hour and find you have to keep them structured like a meeting to work with group video calls.

Visuals aren't even the key factor here. It's audio. I find the obstacle to casual socializing is not being able to directionally focus audio so overlapping conversations are possible.

[paxys]

Same. Every time I try a VR headset (starting from the Oculus Rift dev kit back in the day with that rollercoaster and other demos) I am blown away by the experience, but then I take it off and never think about it again. VR/AR simply isn't something that is missing from my life, and a decade+ later the software still hasn't made the case for itself.

[whiterknight]

I think it’s partly generational. We don’t see as much value because traditional computers are familiar and get the job done for us

But younger people won’t have the same attachment. Young people already use mobile phones for things we would never do outside of a desktop. There is no question that the range of experiences you can have in AR/VR.

[chaostheory]

I used it to workout. It’s much less boring and repetitive than doing normal cardio

[grecy]

Absolutely, and it’s interesting to realize the same was true for the first couple of iPhone versions, iPads and Apple Watch.

As long as those apps come, it could be great

[tempest_]

Same.

The tech is interesting but I am still waiting for the software to show me something that doesn't feel like a gimmick.

[jaimex2]

Yeah, the last thing I want is the scurge of Apple, Meta, or any other big tech parasite directly on my face.

They are soulless, passionless, sterile companies with only the goal of market dominance and investor growth. VR is never going to flourish here though I'm sure that won't stop the iSheep lapping it up and buying what marketing tells them to, like the Apple watch.

[wolverine876]

> whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable.

FWIW Apple's fundamental concept is to address that very problem - to not disconnect your eyes from your surroundings; they work very hard so that you can see your surroundings and that others can see your eyes, and so that their apps tend into integrate your surroundings.

(The article talks about it, and the author thinks they are shortchanging VR.)

> Can anybody relate?

The way I personally relate is the old, seemingly fundamental human instinct I have that shows up especially when new tech is incompatible with my existing life. It forces change if I adopt it, which I don't appreciate, and worse I might be compelled to change if it becomes a normal part of life - if it's necessary competitively or to sufficiently fit into society (e.g., smartphones).

So it's the old story: First I laugh at it (we seem past that for VR); second I say it conflicts with the orthodoxy (my established life, in this case); and third, someday, I'll say I knew it all along. :)

I'm kinda in the second stage, and maybe you are too? As a technologist - that is, as someone whose job is to evaluate and adapt new technologies - I can't afford to indulge that 3-step cycle or I will be giving people advice based on those instincts (1. 'that's ridiculous/vaporware/useless, don't worry about it', 2. 'it's not compatible/applicable for your business', 3. 'it's what everyone is doing!') and fail to be ahead of the curve. Plus, those instincts limit me as a person. So I've needed to learn to recognize that cycle and not act on it, but to evaluate new tech on its own merits.

That turns out to be hard even after lots of practice - it's hard to ignore all the instinct and the constant signals from everyone else, and think for yourself. We're social animals. So it's hard to imagine the killer, high value apps until they are out there, until everyone else signals their value. But some that stand out as possibilities to me:

- AR: Data and metadata on things in the world around me. It seems especially good for work with physical objects: Showing me their specs, diagrams of how they should look, alternate perspectives. Imagine working on your car with AR.

- 3-D VR work rooms: A room with all of your electronic documents, videos, applications, etc. for a project. Also you can have virtual objects - the live control panel from the router, copies of the physical object you are designing, etc. The room can be as large as you want. It seems especially great for teams, where people can bring in documents and objects to share and work on together with everyone else. This seems so much better than current collaboration.

- Presence at things like sporting events: Seats right on the sideline or even views from the field itself: Watch Messi's dribbling and goal form the goalie's perspective. Watch the pitch from the batter's perspective (or the referee's, for those controversial calls). Also for theater, etc.

- 3-D, immersive films and games, of course. Art seems to have great potential, but will need some time to develop, as artists learn the nuances of the medium (and as only games get funding).

[ecoquant]

I made a pointless cube with a square in VRML a long time ago and VR is ultimately going to be the biggest tech disappointment of my life.

The killer app is what I have when I get lucid inside a dream. To only cover vision is missing so much. I can remember being in a war in a plane and getting shot down in a dream. The decent felt unbelievable. That is the killer app for me. That had nothing to do with vision.