[simonsarris]

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morning (especially in this season by the fire).

I have never had anything like anxiety, before nor after coffee. I suspect that for many people's cases with such things, other dietary changes (including unnoticed enormous amounts of sugar with the coffee) may be the real culprit. But it's so hard to say with individuals.

[awongh]

What’s funny to me is the degree to which i perceive people’s denial that caffeine and coffee get you incredibly high.

I’m not sure if this is what you exactly meant by euphoric, but I sometimes experience similar things, and I find it funny that “don’t talk to me until I’ve had my cup of coffee” is a negatively phrased statement of “I’m gonna get high on caffeine then I’ll enjoy this conversation more”- as if society wants to deny the psychotropic effects of drinking this drink.

[CuriouslyC]

That's not an accurate characterization. Don't talk to me until I've had my coffee is as much a statement about morning low body temperature/thirst and morning ritual as it is about caffeine addiction. There's a reason that warm showers in the morning wake you up and invigorate you. Plus coffee is delicious.

[pigeons]

for me it's because I need my withdrawal from addiction rectified first.

[luqtas]

coffee is delicious? caffeine is literally toxic and as most toxins, it's feels bad when you first try it

sometimes i drink (good) coffee and it's pleasant but probably because when i do, i know i'll get high... also i don't eat sugar except with fruits

[opportune]

For people with high daily intake it’s not so much that they want to get “high” on coffee to enjoy the conversation, as it is that their brain is in acute caffeine withdrawal and they will feel so shitty with coffee that they won’t be able to participate in conversation very well.

[ydant]

For what it's worth, my wife and I also sit and drink coffee in the morning together (although not as a consistent daily ritual). Ours is just decaf. (good) Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly.

I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically for about 5 months. Then I started getting sloppy and mixed in light-caff (like chocolate and decaffeinated teas/coffees) and other factors in my life also kicked in and sleep got worse again. Unfortunately I don't have the drastic caffeine cut to fall back on now.

For me, the change 9 months ago was entirely one change - unsweetened caffeinated drinks to unsweetened purely non-caffeine drinks (like "dandy blend" and rooibos).

Anxiety didn't decrease noticeably when I made the change, but sleep improved a lot. Now if I drink caffeinated teas (3 times in the past 2 months) or eat a lot of chocolate I definitely feel the anxiety and just general discomfort. So there's a link of some sort. It feels uncomfortable now...

[loeg]

Decaf can taste ok but even really good decaf pales in comparison to caf, unfortunately. The process of getting the caffeine out is just inherently harmful to the flavor. I think moderation is the key for most people. Drink at most a moderate amount of coffee once in the morning; don't drink it throughout the day.

[nunez]

Hard disagree. Look into swiss-method decafs if you haven't already. High-flavor decaf exists; I make it daily!

[rubslopes]

> Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly.

James Hoffmann made a great video about this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTSdlOdkn0

[munchler]

> And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual.

As someone who doesn’t consume caffeine, this sounds a lot like addiction. You can keep the ritual and ditch the caffeine by drinking decaf if you want.

[arcanemachiner]

As someone who is addicted to caffeine, hell yes it is an addiction.

A long time ago, I cut out the addictions that were causing negative effects for me (mainly weed and tobacco). I kept caffeine around since I can get wired and still do my job, and it's not overtly unhealthy.

An addiction isn't something inherently bad. Everyone's addicted to something or another. But how many addictions synergize with one's performance at work?

[Sammi]

An addiction is only a problem if it's a problem.

I had to ditch coffee because of anxiety. So glad I did. But if you're sleeping well and don't feel like you have an issue with anxiety, then lucky you.

[throwup238]

This is why we can’t have nice things (or bathroom stalls that go all the way down to the floor). People be shooting up drugs everywhere, even at work.

[riversflow]

Why does it sound like addiction and not just enjoying something?

I don’t get this sentiment.

[munchler]

Significant doses of a psychoactive drug on a regular basis.

[loeg]

I eat food several times a day and it often improves my mood and ability to focus. Is this psychoactive and/or addiction?

[fuzzfactor]

It could be worse.

What if it was a truly addictive, habit-forming, tolerance-building drug consumed on a habitual basis without ever allowing a full day, week, month, or year of detoxification to occur, regardless of its toxic properties?

Does that sound more like addiction?

[arcanemachiner]

Jeez, fine, I'll put my phone down already!

[loeg]

A necessary component of addiction as a disease is harm. Without that, the rest doesn’t matter.

[wnolens]

I'm jealous.

One coffee: noticeable anxiety

2 coffees a day for a few days turns into a panic attack.

I've run the experiment many many times (easy with daily habits and a love for coffee). I definitely have pre-existing anxiety, but the effect of caffeine on me is clear as day.

Decaf and I'm fine.

I can tell when I'm mistakenly given regular coffee (frequently with baristas) or when a particular bean isn't that decaffeinated.

[slibhb]

I also enjoyed the ritual of coffee but stopped about a year ago due to sleep issues and anxiety.

As far as anxiety goes, I found it was a question of baseline. I'm normally even-keeled to a fault. But at that time, I was anxious (due to life circumstances) and coffee pushed me over the edge.

Sleep definitely improved and for that reason I don't think I'll ever restart caffeinated coffee. I may start looking around for good decaf beans at some point (if they exist).

[pengaru]

> I have never had anything like anxiety, before nor after coffee. I suspect that for many people's cases with such things, other dietary changes (including unnoticed enormous amounts of sugar with the coffee) may be the real culprit. But it's so hard to say with individuals.

AIUI there's a well established genetic component to caffeine sensitivity and metabolism.

Personally I find dissolving in a spoonful of lions mane mushroom powder takes the edge off and also seems to mitigate withdrawal symptoms should I choose to take a break for more than a day.

[mtlmtlmtlmtl]

I'm the same, though I don't consume a lot of caffeine lately. I do struggle with anxiety disorders but caffeine doesn't make it worse(or better).

Energy drinks do though, and they make me jittery and sweaty, which coffee doesn't. Sugar or sugar-free doesn't seem to make a difference.

My hypothesis is that it's all the niacin they put in energy drinks. 250% of RDI in a 500ml can is typical, sometimes even more than that.

[bluecheese452]

I love coffee, but too much and I get anxiety. Always drink it black, never any sugar/milk/cream.

[rd]

Simon, you also live one of the most idyllic, picturesque lives possible. If I lived in rural NH with my wife and kids, I too would love the coffee ritual.