[mlrtime]

I'm a little confused about these fridge posts. There are refrigerators that do not have any tech that will last [most likely] longer than you stay in your home.

I've had multiple Subzero basic commodity or commercial refrigerators last 15-20 years with only minor parts replacements which are easily found. Of course these are not cheap, but isn't that what everyone here is asking for? Something made well that lasts a long time?

They don't look fancy at all and nobody even knows it's a Subzero because there are no labels on it and no stainless steel front.

[jader201]

I had never heard of Subzero before this post, and just looked them up.

$10k-$15k for a refrigerator?

I’ve only ever owned fairly “basic” refrigerators (e.g. LG or GE), that are about 1/10 of that cost, and have never had any problems with them going out or even degrading in quality (e.g. 10+ years). Maybe needed an ice maker repair, but that’s about it.

Do people need to spend that kind of money for a refrigerator that lasts?

Maybe if you’re going to be in your home for 30-40 years, but not many people stay in one place long enough to outlive these “basic” refrigerators. And even then, I’d argue that a $1k-$2k refrigerator can still last that long.

(I’m using “basic” in quotes here because I feel like our refrigerators weren’t even the bottom tier — they’re quite large, and have the features we need. But now seeing other brands that cost as much as some vehicles, to some they may seem basic.)

[m463]

There was a fancy kitchen design store I wandered into a few months ago, and they had a few really interesting refrigerators.

You opened the door, and there was SPACE. The refrigerator was taller than I was, and very wide. I think it was subzero, but I could be wrong.

It seemed like you could take the 30 lb turkey from thanksgiving and just set it on a shelf, without giving up much space.

Afterwards looking at other refrigerators, even the ingenious ones, I was struck by how complicated they were. You would still be fighting to find a place for something in the refrigerator, or looking for something you lost.

For computer folks, it was the refrigerator equivalent of an organized rack of servers, instead of a bunch of systems crammed under your desk with wires going whereever.

[dreamcompiler]

Subzero became a "status" brand in the US 25 years ago. It's common to find them in US kitchens that are designed to impress rather than to cook in. (Just like Viking ranges.)

Subzero might in fact be a decent-quality fridge--I have no idea because I refuse to pay a status tax on appliances.

[mlrtime]

"I have no idea" but I have strong negative opinions.

Designed to impress who? You can't tell a SZ fridge by looking at it, there are usually no labels. I know of a few professional chefs who buy these fridges, does that mean they are just buying them to impress?

[jader201]

I’d say if you’re a professional chef, that’s a little more understandable — it’s your livelihood.

But this discussion is more around what average people are looking for (e.g. smart vs. dumb appliances), and not so much about commercial appliances that most people aren’t the target consumer for.

Re: impressing people and the lack of labels, just looking at images of SZ refrigerators, these are clearly distinguishable from consumer grade refrigerators. They clearly have the appearance of belonging in a commercial chef’s kitchen.

Out of curiosity, though, you said you’ve had multiple SZ refrigerators — why did you choose those over, e.g. a $1k-$2 LG/GE/Samsung refrigerator? Did you not think it would last more than a few years?

You said:

> I've had multiple Subzero basic commodity or commercial refrigerators last 15-20 years with only minor parts replacements which are easily found.

I could replace “Subzero” with any of the above brands, and say the same thing. So just trying to figure out what you’re willing to pay 10x for.

Genuinely curious, as I feel I may be missing something.

[mlrtime]

Multiple from two different homes, the sub zeros were the age of the house and still going strong.

I avoid LG/Samsung because of the countless articles here an other places were people complain about the quality of appliances, but yet the mass majority of [different] people still buy these crappy appliances with touch screens and glossy finishes.

My point is that these appliances do exist, no feature, long lasting, easily reparable, expensive. People do not want to pay for them as much as HN says they do. For a bunch of smart Engineers I don't understand why this is difficult to grasp. If you want quality, you have to pay for it.

[jader201]

> If you want quality, you have to pay for it.

I definitely agree, but I also believe this applies to some products more than others, and I think there are also diminishing returns as you pay more.

For example, I can say I’ve probably owned 3 refrigerators over the past 20 years (two different homes), and probably paid less than $5000 total. The refrigerator in the last home is probably still going strong, and the one in this home will probably last another 5-10 years at least, and definitely longer than we’ll be in this home.

I think we may have had one repair call at the last home, and none yet on this one (though I’ll admit that the ice maker is currently out, and I’ve not taken the time to diagnose it, and may or may not need a repair call).

Would I pay 2x if I knew I was guaranteed not needing a repair call. Maybe, but not definitely. Would I pay 10x though? Definitely not (unless I was gaining other benefits).

But I also believe I did decent research before purchasing all of these, and that probably played more of a role vs. how much I paid.

But again, will agree that a lot of times you do get what you pay for. I’ve been bitten before by trying to save money.

I just also believe that people with money can tend to overpay for things with diminishing returns, and there’s a balance that can be struck between quality and cost. And I’ve also been bitten by overpaying for something that wasn’t worth the premiums cost in the end (e.g. upper end computer parts can definitely have diminishing returns).

[Nifty3929]

People SAY that want well made, simple things. But people will generally not PAY FOR simple, well made things when much cheaper options are available. You and I might, and many others as well. But the vast majority of folks will not pay more for a higher quality, longer lasting item.

Another example is Speed Queen for washers and dryers. They are substantially more expensive and look very plain and even old fashioned. But they are built to last a long time and be repairable. They have a large part of the laundromat market because the laundromat owners do value these qualities. But they have very little of the consumer market, because consumers don't.

Consumers also tend to favor nice-sounding features that are in fact unreliable and frustrating, such as ice makers in the refrigerator compartment.

[rqtwteye]

"People SAY that want well made, simple things. But people will generally not PAY FOR simple, well made things when much cheaper options are available. You and I might, and many others as well. But the vast majority of folks will not pay more for a higher quality, longer lasting item."

One problem I see is that the higher priced items are not necessarily higher quality these days. A lot of brands are coasting on their reputation while selling cheaply made items at premium price.

[jader201]

Most consumers don’t need commercial-level quality for appliances.

Those appliances are built to handle much more usage, and for a much longer time. E.g. a washer in a laundromat will be used probably 10x compared to a consumer washer over the same amount of time.

Also, a laundromat wants the washer to last as long as possible, probably 20-30 years, but at least 10-15.

There’s no reason for consumers to spend 10x on commercial appliances, when they’re not used as often, and won’t need to endure the misuse/abuse that commercial appliances take.

Also, few residents stay in one place long enough to need an appliance to last more than 15 or so years, and most consumer appliances last that long.

[Nifty3929]

I totally agree! In a way, this is my point. For the most part, people are rationally choosing to pay less money for lower-quality, shorter-lived appliances. Because they don't need them to last a long time. There are basically two markets for these things: commercial and consumer. Similar with printers as well, or even power tools. The cheaply made junk that most people (rationally!) buy, and the expensive, well made stuff that only those who care and can afford buy.

[TeMPOraL]

Except when people are made aware of the commercial market and able to score something off it, suddenly it turns out they like the reliability, the ergonomics, the lack of bullshit.

Consumers ain't choosing shit. People are talking here as if most people were drowning in money, and shopping around for low price as a pastime. On the contrary, people are starved for funds, they buy cheap out of necessity, enduring whatever abusive or lazy bullshit the manufaturer pulled off to offer their wares slightly cheaper.

[inferiorhuman]

20 years ago you could buy a simple, reliable, mid-low priced fridge and expect it to last 20 years. The only reason I replaced mine (a Sears branded Whirlpool) is that some idiot contractors destroyed it. It lasted 20 years without a single repair.

I had a similar era whatever of Whirlpool's bargain basement brand was in my apartment in the city. That one did stop cooling reliably, but a $20 relay and 10 minutes fixed that right up. I didn't even bother to call the landlord.

With few exceptions you'll find similar stories from most well known brands up through the mid 00s.

[account42]

People are used to being sold overcomplicated cheaply made things priced the same as well made things. Paying more is hardly ever a guarantee of getting better quality so without any ability to tell if something is actually good it does make more sense to go with the cheaper option.

[ensignavenger]

I've never seen these anywhere- where do you get them from?