[pawelwentpawel]

When asking Google - what the etymology of the "robot" word is, the answer is from Czech word "robota" which is they translate as "forced labor".

While I don't speak Czech, I speak Polish which is a close cousin. For years it didn't occur to me that "robot" and the shortened "bot" words have slavic etymology. In Polish "robić" means to do (carry out, perform etc.) something. "Robię kawę" means "I'm making a coffee" and "Zrób coś" (imperative mood - do something!) is a call for action to take action. It's a popular multi-use verb.

"Robota" is a job or some work that one has to do, not necessarily forced as Google suggests.

Edit: Also adding another interesting fact. Golem is an inanimate entity from Yiddish folklore, with a story strongly related to a 16th Prague Rabbi. I looked it up on Wikipedia if there was any connection with the "Robot" and indeed there seem to be some - "The play was written in Prague, and while Čapek denied that he modeled the robot after the golem, many similarities are seen in the plot." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)

[dvdkon]

> "Robota" is a job or some work that one has to do, not necessarily forced as Google suggests.

This is a popular misconception among speakers of other slavic languages, but the Czech word "robota" really does refer to forced work performed by feudal serfs: https://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?slovo=robota

[neuromanser]

Yes, robota has a different meaning in Czech (mandatory work performed by serfs for the benefit of their landlord) than in eg. Slovak or Russian where it means simply "work". Cf. Slovak phrase "Idem do roboty".

Btw Rossum in “Rossum’s Universal Robots” means "Reason".

[gambiting]

I've always read that it came from "robotnik" which just means "person who is doing something". And I agree, I'm also Polish and "robota" does not imply forced labour in the slightest, maybe it does in Czech but I doubt it given the close similarity between languages. It's quite common for people to say "Idę do roboty" which just means "I'm going to work"(as in - my place of employment).

[rebolek]

I'm Czech and while those two languages are close, "robota" is really forced work in Czech. What you called "robota" in Polish is called "práce" in Czech. In Czech, "Robota" is forced work and has bad connotations. See https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota . It's interesting that this page doesn't have Polish translation.

[petr25102018]

In the region where I was growing up next to Poland, we say "chodit do roboty" when describing normal work.

[tomashubelbauer]

A lot of Czech people use this phrase in a very subtle, almost undetectable jest, but it is still fundamentally in jest. Drawing a connection between having to work for a living and likening it to being forced to work. It's similar to saying "Back to the salt mines" meaning back to work.

[rebolek]

I don't doubt that, you're probably from somewhere around Ostrava. There are of course regional differences. I'm from Brno and instead of "jít do práce" we usually used "jít do hokny", "jít do háčku", or just "jít makat". Whenever I hear word "robota", I connect it with my grand-grand-...-father who was forced to work ("robota") by "dráb" (overseer) and didn't like it. So he cut overseer's head with his scythe, became a village hero and founded a church there.

So I'm hard-wired to dislike "robota".

[_a_a_a_]

> So he cut overseer's head with his scythe, became a village hero and founded a church there

do go on, sounds like quite a story in there.

[oli-g]

I did not expect to read hantec on HN today. Enough internet and about time for a škopek I guess.

[WesolyKubeczek]

It cannot be helped if your práce feels much like robota. Which, granted, happens a lot.

[kgeist]

Reminds of the Russian "chodit na rabotu".

[lo_zamoyski]

It is similar in Polish. “Robota” as a colloquialism is used to denote tedious, unpleasant, and labor-intensive labor (literally manual labor), and it has a coarse connotation, so it is often used in jest (“wracać do roboty” is something like “back to the salt mines”).

The typical and more genteel way to refer to work is “praca”. “Szukam pracę” is how you would typically say “I’m looking for work”, for example [0]; “ciężko pracuję” means “I work hard”. So while “robotnik” is better understood as specifically a manual laborer or someone of the working class, “pracownik” means something like “employee”.

[0] I am aware of the Czech false cognate “šukat” :).

[agapon]

Interesting that in Ukrainian робота and праця are synonymous. Although, some derived words are different in meaning. Like робітник is a worker but працівник is an employee. I see in another comment that the same is true in Polish.

[int_19h]

Etymologically Czech is the most conservative here. In other Slavic languages and in Proto-Slavic the original meaning was also forced/compelled labor (hence also why "rab" or "rob" means "slave" and not "worker" in most East and South Slavic languages). It just happened to evolve into a generic term meaning "labor" because the forced/compelled kind was so widespread and normalized.

Slavic languages aren't the only ones with such a trajectory for the term - the German "Arbeit" is directly related and underwent a similar process.

[lo_zamoyski]

I would say that in Polish “robota” has a similar connotation. And “robol” describes a kind of low-level grunt. It’s definitely pejorative. “Praca” is the typical way to talk about work.

[pawelwentpawel]

I'd translate "robotnik" as a "worker". A "person who is doing something" sounds a bit too general. Nevertheless, it's easy to guess that the root of the word is the same verb.

[pauke]

No, in Czech the meaning really is more specific and forced labor is not an overly bad translation, it's work done by serfs in medieval times. It can be used to describe any work as heavy, but that's either in joke, or when used by people geographically close to Poland (typically referring to mining).

[bee_rider]

Is there some historical reason for this?

I vaguely remember that in English, we have words like “cattle,” French etymology, and “cow” Germanic, and the speculation is that it is because the aristocracy were French for much of England’s history (so, the French word is used to refer to cows as a sort of abstract resource to be considered in bulk).

[pauke]

I believe it's a similar thing. Semi-educated guess based on historical facts: Because of various (not least religious) reasons, Czech-speaking intelligentsia pretty much ceased to exist mid-17th century (fact, replaced by German/Latin) and only actual serfs spoke Czech, work and robota became defacto synonym (speculation). And when it became fashionable and cool to speak Czech 100-200 years later for the city-dwellers (fact), they probably felt the need to differentiate whatever they were doing as a job from the definitely uncool farmers of the countryside (speculation).

[int_19h]

The evolution is the other way around - the original meaning of that root in proto-Slavic was obligatory work, and that one in turn is a derivative of a PIE word with the same meaning.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/o...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/o...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur...

[lcnPylGDnU4H9OF]

So “robota” would cover a personal or job-related chore and “robotnik” is a person performing such a chore?

[rvba]

In Polsh:

"Robotnik" means *manual* worker. E.g. someone fixing roads, or working in a factory.

"Pracownik" is a generic word for "employee". Can be an office worker or an manual worker.

"Robić" basically means "to do". While "pracować" means "to work". As you can notice one is more formal than another.

"Robota" is a less formal word, something closer to a "gig" (however it also means "work" or "job"). You will probably not find it in written texts. In writing "praca" (work) sounds more formal.

As a bonus, if you are a (manual) worker who complains and makes some not subtle digs about your job, you can say that you "have to go to your kołchoz tomorrow" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkhoz ). As the communist slogan said "work is your second home" after all :)

On a side note, do Czechs really like the polish word "pomidorek"? (Little tomato)

[bee_rider]

It is sort of funny that when shortening it in English, we ended up with “bot,” dropping the “ro,” which looks like the more important part of the word.

[int_19h]

Wouldn't be the first time. The English word "bus" is derived from a neologism "omnibus", "for all" (as in, "carriage for all") invented to describe the first attempts at mass transportation using horse carriages. In that word, "omni-" corresponds to "all", and "-bus" is just a suffix indicating dative declension of a plural noun.

[Loughla]

I'm betting it's because Rob as a shortened version doesn't work.

[tsunamifury]

I’ve heard this shortening by Russians also American English “robo” was common

[notbeuller]

In various Discworld books, Pratchett sort of unified Golumns with Asimov’s three laws robots.

[siftrics]

In Russian, работа simply means "work" or "job" without any negative connotation.

[hippich]

Yet "раб" is translated as "slave"..

[WesolyKubeczek]

In Bulgarian, a slave is „роб”.

[tomashubelbauer]

Same with Polish, but in Czech where the word originates from, there is a difference and normal work is called "práce" not "robota" which is reserved for forced labor or as an in-jest name for work.

[andrewshadura]

In Slovak, robota is apparently more like in Polish, it's commonly used to mean a job, sometimes as manual work, only historically for forced labour.

[meepmorp]

Russian isn't Czech and there are a lot of false cognates between the two.

[pvg]

These aren't false cognates though, they're actual cognates. Cognates can have different meanings. You might be thinking of 'false friends'.

[torstenvl]

My absolute favorite false cognate is 'arraigned' (English) vs. 'araignée' (French).

Arraignments would be far more nervewracking if they significantly involved spiders.

[hirsin]

Interestingly, the Chernobyl liquidators forced to clean the roof were referred to as robots. I think the TV series expanded that to "bio robots", but books about the incident from tbe nineties simply used robot.

[yread]

I like vonet and pachnout

[BossingAround]

In Czech, "robotnik" meant "serfs" and "robota" was the work that the serf was forced to do. Of course, nowadays, "robota" took the meaning of "a job" but that is not relevant to the etymology of the words.

[wastewastewaste]

We don't know when the word took on a new meaning though, serfdom in Austria Hungary was abolished 70 years before "robot" was first used

[beebeepka]

In Bulgaria, we use "работа" (rabota) but eventually adopted "robotya" as a slang for working hard as a robot.

Man, I really should travel more around Europe. COVID ruined my last planned vacation and I've stayed at home since then.

[paganel]

As your neighbor from the North (Romania) I highly recommend visiting the general Central and Eastern European area.

In the last few years we’ve been to Prague, short stay in Vienna, Bratislava, Ohrid (spent a night in Pernik on the way there, which I count as part of the experience) and I’d also put Athens and Southern Greece/the Peloponnese on the list (even though it’s not Eastern nor Central European). All very interesting and beautiful places in their own way (yes, even Athens), I highly recommend them.

[beebeepka]

all good recommendations. I needed some encouragement. Thank you.

It's blowing my mind you willingly went to Pernik, though.

[lupire]

Speaking of Slavic etymology and robota, "slave" is derived from "Slav".

[jefftk]

slave (n.) c. 1300, sclave, esclave, "person who is the chattel or property of another," from Old French esclave (13c.) and directly from Medieval Latin Sclavus "slave" (source also of Italian schiavo, French esclave, Spanish esclavo), originally "Slav" (see Slav); so used in this secondary sense because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/slave

[lo_zamoyski]

Indeed, which is interesting, because “Slav” comes from the word for “speech” or “word”. In Polish, for example, “word” is “słowo”, whereas “Slavs” is “słowianie”. Germans are “niemcy” from “niemy”, meaning “mute”. So to be a Slav meant to be intelligible and able to speak, whereas Germans were unintelligible or “mute”. Compare this to “barbarian”, from the Greek, which comes from the sound of the unintelligible speech of foreigners to the Greek ear (“barbarbar”, almost like “blah blah blah”).

[thriftwy]

The first part makes sense, the second one doesn't: where would that 'c' come from? No such thing as Sclavic people, never was.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure if there is any reflection on the fact that mediterranean pirates (and nomadic tribes further east) plundered Balkans for captives and southwestern europeans then bought them. And that, perhaps, was a suboptimal way to behave.

[int_19h]

It's not just the pirates, and not just Balkans, but also e.g. the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

As for why there's a "k" there - Greeks would naturally adapt any foreign word to the phonotactics of their language, which does not have "σλ" as a valid syllable onset, but does have "σκλ".

[jefftk]

> No such thing as Sclavic people, never was.

Sounds like there was to the Greeks:

Slav (n.) "one of the people who inhabit most of Eastern Europe," late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c. 800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c. 580), from a shortening of Proto-Slavic sloveninu "a Slav"* -- https://www.etymonline.com/word/Slav

[thinkertraveler]

It's not derived, it's used - first by defeated.

[Dylan16807]

> It's not.

How is it not?

One of your other comments sounds like you agree with the etymology jefftk cited? But that says the exact same thing. The word slav was first, and the word slave was made from it.

Something being "propaganda" and "revenge" does not stop it from being the origin of a word.

Edit:

Oh, you elaborated slightly. > It's not derived, it's used - first by defeated.

That's what derived means. They took a word and used it to make a new word.

[thinkertraveler]

the other word is used in such way only as sounds similar to the second but has different meaning

[thinkertraveler]

That's nonsense, not true and a libel. That words are INDEPENDENT: slave doesn't mean faming, people names: Bogusław mean Godfaming - not slave of god, Mieczysław mean Swordfaming - not slave of sword.