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by npinsker 894 days ago
> Suppose we want a new version of Pokémon Yellow with a new Pokémon creature. We don’t need to change the game’s source code, we just need to edit the wiki and then press the “remake game” button. Modding a game becomes as simple as editing the wiki. Creating a game becomes as simple as writing its wiki.

Is this actually at all feasible? The total amount of storage space used by the Pokémon wiki is hundreds of times larger than the original game, likely requiring many times more effort to write than spent by the original programmers, and it still doesn't cover many, many aspects of that game (e.g. that Pokémon is tile-based; what buttons do in various contexts; sound and visual UI design) -- to say nothing of the clever ASM and memory tricks necessary to make the game work on the Game Boy.

I'm reminded of that comic where the punchline is "do you know the industry term for a specification precise enough to generate a program? Code. It's called code."

6 comments

> it still doesn't cover many, many aspects of that game

But I kinda love that as an idea. The text of the wiki defines the core ideas of what the game is, but a lot is left unspecified and to be interpreted.

Pokémon legends Arceus feels a lot like what someone who had only read about the franchise may create as a game, and it's a pretty awesome addition to the series.

I agree in principle, but that's dangerously close to saying "I'd love if AI was a good game designer" -- I mean, I'd love it too, but we're very far from that, and there are even more interesting things we could do in that world.

Also, if I were instructing someone to make a Pokémon game, the info on the wiki (gigantic percentage and stats tables, tilemaps, EVs and IVs) seems like generally the exact opposite of what I'd choose to specify.

Funny you say that, because I'd actually take stat distributions and movesets and all that other data-heavy stuff to be one of the most important factors in the game!
"Its called code"

Can you code a million games per day? The barrier to entry if this works out, would allow anyone to make such games by simply writing down a few pages of "mods" every hour. Or if you force ChatGPT to creatively generate some changes, it could be automated. Hundreds of games per hour? Local models trained on some custom dataset could generate these wikis in batches. Thousands of new games per hour! And if the generator runs on random seeds as input, why not try them all? Millions of games per day. Obviously a single person with this generator would be able to saturate entire genres in space of weeks.

> Can you code a million games per day?

Is there a market for thousands of custom games per hour? Games designed without clear design goals or quality control? Games where the player is the alpha tester for mechanics generated with no guarantee of consistency or even functionality?

It's like our modern mobile game landscape, but worse. I find such vision somewhat revolting, tbh.

Is the modern mobile any worse than steam? If anything it seems like the popular mobile games are highly refined, primarily to extract money.
Exactly. I'd argue there's still quite a gap between the PC/console and mobile markets. Mobile games aren't bad, per say, they just feel like they're optimized for revenue extraction vs entertainment. As an example, look at the expectations around big franchises when they launch mobile titles, e.g. Diablo: Immortal or C&C: Legions.

I see your point though. Steam's quality has been getting less and less consistent, particularly when it comes to early access titles. Maybe a better example would have been NSFW Steam games: a monotonous landscape devoid of originality sold for a few bucks a pop.

I think the idea isn't that it generates Pokemon Yellow exactly, just that it generates a game of similar complexity. If it's not in the wiki it's not relevant. If its relevant then it should be added to the wiki.
sound is very important for the game experience
Bulbapedia could very easily contain midi transcriptions of every song in the game franchise.
The wiki can contain video clips or animated gifs showing gameplay.
The original Pokemon games (Red, Blue, Yellow, and Green in JPN) were also full of notorious programming idiosyncrasies and glitches. I'm not sure how safely you could insert new data into the game without poking the bear too much.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_glitches_(Ge...

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_battle_glitc...

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_overworld_gl...

The 1/256 glitch is a fan favorite because to this day it still fucks over people who play Gen 1 competitive PvP battles.

Was the comic Dilbert? Curious to lookup the original
Scott Adams does not know enough about programming to understand that joke.