[lm28469]

I think the subtitle summarises it pretty good: "If it looks like a job, and is supervised like a job, it'll be classified as a job". The bullet points down the article make it even clearer.

Freelancing implies some independence/freedom which most uber or deliveroo drivers don't have in practice.

For example in France you can't declare yourself as a freelancer if you have a single client which dictates your working hours and employs you for very loosely defined missions, because for all intent and purpose you'd be an employee.

[gruez]

>Freelancing implies some independence/freedom which most uber or deliveroo drivers don't have in practice.

>For example in France you can't declare yourself as a freelancer if you have a single client which dictates your working hours and employs you for very loosely defined missions, because for all intent and purpose you'd be an employee.

Is this some European thing I'm no aware of? Gig workers can accept jobs from multiple apps and log on anytime they want.

[InCityDreams]

>Is this some European thing I'm no aware of? Gig workers can accept jobs from multiple apps and log on anytime they want.

Don't know about it only being a euro-thang, but what you describe is almost the very definition of gig-working. Except, they often can't do 'anytime they want'.

[lm28469]

> Gig workers can accept jobs from multiple apps and log on anytime they want.

That's what I'm saying, not only you can but you're obligated to in most cases. Otherwise it's most likely a scheme for you and/or the employer to get out of various legal processes

If you do 9 to 5 everyday for the same company for long uninterrupted periods it's not a gig anymore

[gruez]

Going back to gig workers, it sounds like you agree that they're actually contractors and shouldn't be classed as employees? All the stuff you described isn't very applicable to gig workers.

[lm28469]

Some are some aren't. The uber driver with 10k trips per year isn't, the student delivering food on saturday is.

[mewpmewp2]

What about a gig worker who works whenever they feel like, get up to 150 hours per month overall, but also use 3 different Uber like companies to constantly compare which one has better offering at the time?

[rtsil]

The law will apply on a case by case basis, it's not a decision to force all gig workers to be treated as employees. TFA gives the criteria by which each case will be evaluated.

[BobaFloutist]

Are they penalized for turning down trips that don't meet their standards? Are they given the agency to set their rates?

[mewpmewp2]

But they don't dictate the working hours. Also many of the gig workers around my area work for multiple competing companies. We have multiple different Uber's and many are using multiple of those.

[bwb]

Gotcha, so what is preventing these companies from forcing the uber/delieroo drivers to be freelance solo classification?

IE, where are the teeth?

The problem with saying "like x" is it requires court cases and means enforcement is impossible. Because the gov has to challenge and challenge and challenge because it is so vague as "like x".

Could they not just tax gig workers on an hourly basis and then comp the workers with "employment" like services?

[lm28469]

> so what is preventing these companies from forcing the uber/delieroo drivers to be freelance solo classification?

Right now nothing, that's why they want to change it.

You just have to set the rules. For example when I get an uber I often check the driver profile, someone with 27 000 trips in 3 years isn't a gig worker. When you have a student delivering food 3 hours a week to pay his friday night bar trip it's completely different. Right now both are in the same category

[gruez]

So it's only gig working if you work full time? What about other freelancers that work full time? Should they be classed as employees too, or are we singling out gig workers here?

[lm28469]

> So it's only gig working if you work full time?

Nope

> What about other freelancers that work full time? Should they be classed as employees too, or are we singling out gig workers here?

These questions are answered in the article

[gruez]

The article says

>It also sets rules that mean digital platform workers will be considered employees if at least two of the following five conditions are met:

>* If the employer caps worker payments;

>* If the employer supervises worker performance, directly or electronically;

>* If the employer has control over the distribution or allocation of tasks;

>* If the employer has control over working conditions and working hours;

>* If the employer limits discretion about how work is done, appearance, or conduct.

None of these are valid reasons to differentiate between "someone with 27 000 trips in 3 years" and "a student delivering food 3 hours a week to pay his friday night bar trip"

[mewpmewp2]

Also all of those rules are so vague, it could be argued in any case someone is doing some of that in any sort of deal.

1. Company A has a max budget for contractor B or project B.

2. In most cases performance is supervised at least to some extent?

3. Not sure what that exactly means. What are tasks? What is control of distribution or allocation?

4. What does control mean? What if they have a dynamic pricing rate which yields higher payment on certain times and less on other times?

5. When a contractor hires a subcontractor or any sort of contracting is done, in most cases there's also expectation of such things.

By the way if you make those rules, people will 100% start to play around them in order to be categorised in A or B way.

[lm28469]

> None of these are valid reasons

Nothing is naturally valid, that's why we make laws, and then things become valid or not. Some countries have laws regarding what is contracting and what isn't contracting, in the case of Uber drivers working solely for uber, making 100% of their income from Uber, &c. it's clear cut, and that's going to be the majority of cases

[Moldoteck]

This applies only if the firm is present in France. If you contract for a firm in say Germany, afaik the rule no longer applies