[cfeduke]

> it will be just in maintenance alone

Can confirm; >5 years on a Model 3 and other than tires $0 in maintenance so far. >3 years on a Model Y and other than tires, $0 in maintenance so far. Absolute huge cost and time savings compared to my ICE vehicles, even when I perform my own maintenance on them.

[toomuchtodo]

Tesla will also come to my house (or any other address I specify within their service coverage area) with a mobile ranger to do the service I don't want to do myself (brake fluid exchange every 2 years). I wish other automakers would offer this. Not EV specific, but a material improvement in user experience imho. Major work will still require a shop visit (dropping the HV battery pack, motor replacement, other major mechanicals).

(I am aware of YourMechanic and other similar services, but having the unified experience with a brand is nice and fancy, I can order it in the Tesla app and the maintenance records can easily transfer to the next VIN owner)

[droopyEyelids]

Its an improvement to you but a lost sales opportunity for the dealer.

Im surprised this isnt mentioned more, but dealers make a ton of money pressuring people who come in for maintenance to get a bunch of other stuff.

According to NADA in 202 49% of dealership profits came from the service and parts department, 36% from new vehicle sales, and 14% from used sales.

Service and parts averages 60-70% profit on the transactions.

[sunflowerfly]

While probably true, I would love to see the traditional car dealership business model go away. The only reason anymore to have a dealer is a place to test drive, and you do not need a huge lot full of cars for that.

[kccqzy]

Traditional brands sell many more SKUs than Tesla. It is likely they will need a large lot just to have all the variations in SKUs available for test drive. Tesla isn't particularly good at their so-called "demo drive" actually. Last time I tried to test drive both AWD and RWD variations of the same model but they couldn't do that. Needless to say I didn't buy a Tesla.

[toomuchtodo]

Great call out. They sell cars to capture future service revenue. This is why you can't sell EVs effectively with a dealership model. The product threatens their survival.

[dylan604]

Printer manufactures sell printers to capture future ink sales revenue. This isn't unique here.

[CyanLite2]

The time savings alone is the yuge factor IMO.

People talk about "oh I don't want to spend 15 minutes charging at a supercharger on road trips". Yeah, I'd rather do that once in a blue moon rather than the weekly drive out of my way to spend 5-10 minutes at a gas station with semi-sketchy people loitering the area. Or deal with the ever-changing gas prices that go up every time a dictator in the middle-east sneezes.

[SoftTalker]

Can you not accept that other people have different needs than you? Some people do 350+ mile one way trips regularly, not "once in a blue moon" and EVs are just less convenent for them. I have trips like that at least monthly, sometimes weekly. I can do that on a single tank of fuel and not have to worry about finding a charger along the way or when I arrive or if my hotel will even have working chargers (I'm sure some hotels offer this but I personally have never seen it and I stay at moderately decent hotel like Hampton Inn).

[Zanni]

You make a good point that different people have different needs, and everyone tends to argue from their own perspective. And, like you, I would not rely on hotel chargers.

However ... if you drive a Tesla, there are very few places in the United States where you would have to "worry about finding a charger along the way." Enter your destination in the nav, and it will pick a convenient Supercharger for you.

You're probably not planning on converting to a BEV anytime soon, but check out Tesla's trip planner on your monthly 350+ mile drive. I think you'll be surprised.

https://www.tesla.com/trips

[BobaFloutist]

Yeah but if charging stations become as ubiquitous as gas stations, this becomes a lot less of an issue.

And quite frankly my 10-gallon tank has like a 400 mile range, and newer electric cars have like a 300 mile range, so the gap is getting pretty narrow.

[calvinmorrison]

95% of people commenting on this thread live within a short drive of the Amtrak North East corridor and absolutely should convert to an EV as fast as possible. For people who dont live in the NY megolopolis... the factors are different.

[averageRoyalty]

I'm commenting and I don't even know what that is. I'm guessing it's thousands of kilometers away from me.

[floxy]

Anyone have stats on the overall audience of HN? I'd have guessed it to be very west coast heavy.

[Symbiote]

It's a bit dated, but much more international than you realise, especially if you tend to read at the same time of day.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16633521

[hinkley]

People who try to drive six, eight hours without a break put themselves at danger, but also everyone around them.

I suspect insurance companies see the forced 20 minute break every five hours as a feature not a bug.

[lordnacho]

Nobody has factored in the child tax!

You go to a gas station, kid is there, he wants a snack or magazine. Multiplied by the number of kids.

Charge at home and kid gets nothing.

[tonyedgecombe]

>You go to a gas station, kid is there, he wants a snack or magazine. Multiplied by the number of kids.

There is a simple answer to that.

[lordnacho]

Oh here we go.

"I can just say no when the kid is unreasonable"

"My kid is not gonna have an iPad"

"My kid is gonna do his homework"

"My kid is gonna be polite"

What do you suppose parents have already tried?

Or did you mean don't have kids?

[tonyedgecombe]

You can just say no. Sometimes they will have a tantrum. It’s not the end of the world.

On the other hand if you continually indulge them then you can only expect one outcome.

[lordnacho]

Rock and a hard place. Being unreasonable is a great negotiating position, and has worked for children as well as terrorists.

[tomcam]

The number of times people have to wait 40 minutes for their 15 minute charge is definitely non-zero

[agumonkey]

Car maintenance is such a huge burden. I don't want see car mechanics out of job, but sincerely the amount of money wasted in parts is astonishing (included the high labour cost due to massive amount of parts and differences in configurations to deal with).

Once the average person knows the maintenance cost is that low it will probably provide yet another inflection in EV curve adoption.

[tomcam]

And you’re being charitable here, because you are omitting the all-too-frequent case of work being done when it’s not necessary. That’s what bugs the hell out of me.

[agumonkey]

Yes indeed, this industry is filled with obscure improper and/or fake work because we rely on cars too much and are hostages.

Makes me think a tiny city open source hardware EV, with a pedagogical ecosystem, would be cool

[tomcam]

So I love that, but here in the USA we have super tight safety standards. Any ideas on how to handle that?

[jjtheblunt]

Similar for 2014-2022 BMW i3 over 80k miles : about $200 maintenance total, other than tires.

Cost to go a mile varied between 1/5 and 1/10 of ICE, but had limited range (which worked for me).

[speedgoose]

I had to change the brake disks on my 2014 i3 because they rusted too much as I didn’t use them enough. Remember to brake once in a while if you live in an area with salty roads.

[jjtheblunt]

that sounds about right, but i was in unsalted territory!

[WD40forRust34]

>$0, so far

>$0, so far

Come now, amortize what the eventual service costs will be...

[aaomidi]

> Come now, amortize what the eventual service costs will be...

I've been driving one since 2018, 80K miles. I've had to change tires probably 30-40% faster than ICE cars of a similar caliber (FWIW I also have become more careful on tires too). I've had exactly a cost of $1200 on it so far (not counting tires).

I think that's actually pretty decent. I think people also switch cars every 5-6 years too?

[lm28469]

> I think people also switch cars every 5-6 years too?

Maybe, but the average car is much older than 5-6 years https://bcarparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/INFO-AVERAG...

I wouldn't mind buying a 15+ years old ice. Buying a 15+ years old electric car seems like a complete gamble so far

[m463]

Well, no oil changes, but I suspect long-term there may be big things like on ICE cars. 12v battery, air conditioner, coolant changes (fewer), motor issues, big battery. There are a lot of electronics. Crashes might be fewer, but it seems the cars are expensive to fix. Hopefully there will be parts long-term, and repair infrastructure.

[moduspol]

I did have to have the 12v battery replaced on my 2018 Model 3, but I think they've now transitioned to Lithium-ion 12v batteries on the newer cars, so I'm not sure if that'll be an expected maintenance item much longer.

[hinkley]

I think we should stop factoring our tires. EVs chew through tires because they’re heavy as hell.

If we play at being objective and get caught leaving bits out, people shut down and label you a liar.

I presume brakes and tires partially cancel out, depending on car model. Some vehicles do engine braking automatically (mine does).

[galcerte]

SUVs are being sold like candy, and they are heavier than your regular sedan. This is especially so in the US, where it's not just SUVs but also trucks, and they are both bigger and heavier than in Europe. Being heavy is not exclusive to EVs.

[smileysteve]

Tire store source tells me it's not just the weight, but many drivers are aggressively regenerative breakers and enjoy their aggressive acceleration as well.

We didn't hear about tire wear as much on the Nissan leaf.

We've taken 5% of cars that had 7+ second 0-60 times and replaced them with 3 second 0-60 cars. And we've removed the most direct cost of that acceleration (fuel).

[simplyluke]

Tires are also super expensive. Reading my maintenance logs, in all but one year of the prior 5 of ownership with my ICE doubling my tire interval would have been more expensive than all other maintenance. 2016 4Runner for reference, and I do most of the labor myself.

[kwhitefoot]

> EVs chew through tires because they’re heavy as hell.

Nonsense most EVs are very similar in weight to their ICE counterparts. My Model S weighs about 2 100 kg, a comparable sized ICE car such as an S-class Mercedes weighs slightly less to slightly more depending on which options you specify.

[alvah]

Oh come on. EVs have many advantages, but "most EVs are very similar in weight to their ICE counterparts" is straight-up untrue.

Model S Long Range: 510lb heavier than a BMW 540i XDrive Model 3 Performance 379lb heavier than a BMW 330i XDrive Rivian R1S weighs over 7200lb. University of Leeds study (UK): electric cars are 312 kilograms (688 pounds) heavier on average than comparable vehicles powered by gasoline engines.

[kwhitefoot]

Link to the study?

[alvah]

The figure was published at https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bevs-could-also-damage-ro..., and of course they didn't provide a link to the study :(

The figure may be taken from the Large Cars section of table 2 in this study (though the average weight difference given in the table is actually 433kg): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353150136_Comparati...

[slaw]

Why do you compare Tesla Model S to a luxury car? Model S is not comfortable, it is noisy, has low quality interior. Is it because it is expensive? Any Ferrari is more expensive and it is not a luxury car.

Tesla Model S has smaller interior than Camry.

Tesla Model S - 4,561 lb.

Toyota Camry - 3,340 lb.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401921012&veh2...