[mmaunder]

I’ve been doing O2 and CO2 “tables” which are breath hold exercises for free diving. For co2 you hold for 2 mins, breathe for 2, hold for 2, breathe for 1:45, hold for 2, breathe for 1:30 and keep reducing the breathing until you’re at 15 seconds. It’s getting you used to co2 building up. Much more to it than that but the feeling during and after is incredible. Been doing yoga for 6 years and never had a feeling of calm like this. Check out STAmina if you’re interested which is a free diving training app. Even integrates with pulse oximeters. And free diving itself is awesome and becoming very popular.

[Baeocystin]

So, this might be a stupid question. I am asking it honestly, though.

Speaking as someone who has sleep apnea, my doctors have really hammered home how bad apnea events are for my general health. Does that not apply to this kind of training?

[Daishiman]

Apnea is bad because it kills long deep REM cycles that are essential for your body’s recovery.

[doctor_eval]

I don’t think that’s the whole story, or even the most important part. My understanding is that blood pressure rises significantly during an apnea event and that over time this can cause all sorts of physical problems, especially blood vessel damage, leading to increased risk of heart attack and stroke.

I’d guess that lack of REM would cause symptoms like daytime drowsiness, but it’s the physiological effects that are gonna kill ya.

[pjerem]

Maybe but, correct me if I’m wrong, temporary high blood pressure isn’t really harmful.

My understanding is that bad sleep will induce chronic stress and chronic stress will induce high blood pressure.

So yes, bad sleep will dangerously increase blood pressure but it’s not a direct effect.

(That’s my interpretation, maybe it’s false)

[doctor_eval]

It’s physically harmful in the long term, can lead to serious vascular problems if left untreated.

In fact it turns out that REM sleep can sometimes compensate for apnea in some people, that is, the onset of REM can happen more quickly. Some people can get enough REM sleep even with apnea.

To be clear, ultimately all of these things can become problems, I’m just disputing that lost REM is the main health concern. It’s one concern, but AFAIK, in the long term venous damage is what will kill you.

[tiffanyg]

This is fundamentally the problem.

To expand / clarify slightly: REM sleep is absolutely essential to "higher animals". It is not, though, "deep sleep" in the sense that "long slow delta wave" sleep is often called "deep sleep", and the "NREM" stages of sleep tend to be "deeper" (in the sense of physiology 'slower' / harder to awaken) than REM sleep.

This Wikipedia article could use some editing, at least for clarity, but is certainly a solid enough reference and starting point for further reading (for anyone interested): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_cycle

Apnea is incredibly stressful on the body / mind. Disruption before REACHING REM sleep (one of the reasons REM may be referred to as "deep sleep" in non-technical language) is among the worst of the effects. Since most of a single cycle is NOT REM sleep but rather stages occurring before REM, REM is a phase most often prevented by episodes of apnea. But, the physiological stress also relates to disruption of other phases as well.

Besides sometimes profound effects on cognitive function varying over days and weeks depending on the severity / frequency of "apneic events", the stresses that accumulate over time tend to cause cardiovascular problems, especially.

As usual, sites like Cleveland Clinic's and Mayo Clinic's etc. give good info (short of the more technical scientific review articles you can search for on PubMed, for example). Cleveland Clinic's seems quite good to me (perhaps a bit better in clarity regarding phases of sleep than the Wikipedia article, as well):

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/8718-sleep-ap...

Edit: you wrote "long deep REM cycles" - that's a reasonable phrasing and would also 'frame' effects overall. So, if it's unclear from my writing (ha, write after I 'dinged' a Wikipedia article), there is no conflict (depending on exactly how one reads these messages, of course) between my message and the parent. To clarify, it was not my intention to come off that way (but I see that certain emphases might suggest that, apologies if it reads that way to some!)

[JoshTriplett]

I had similar exercises when swimming: 4x25m with 3 breaths each 25m, 4x25m with 2 breaths each 25m, 4x25m with 1 breath each 25m, and 4x25m where you only breath when you hit the wall and turn. There are similar variants for 50m.

That made a huge difference expanding my lung capacity, and I still have most of that expanded lung capacity today.

[Nicholas_C]

+1 for Stamina, I use this app for apnea training for surfing. Wim Hof also produces a similar calming feeling, there are some good guided Wim Hof videos on youtube that are easy to follow.

[tra3]

Are there any videos in particular that you can recommend?

[Nicholas_C]

Here is a good one guided by Wim Hof himself: https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ?si

[m3kw9]

It’s probably your brain about to tap out but you have this dizzy feeling of being “calm”

[mmaunder]

Lol I’m wearing a pulse oximeter and it never drops below 90%

[agos]

at 90% you're bordering on sever hypoxia, I would not recommend this for the general public

[2-718-281-828]

"I would recommend you to hold your breath until your SpO2 drops to 90%." ... I mean, who would say such a thing, right? :D

But I totally recommend breathwork ... to myself and I don't even wear a pulseoximeter.

[mmaunder]

Never did join that club.