| HN Mirror

Sorry, I ran out of fucks somewhere in the middle of COVID. Them nuking their own army/PMC themselves would be small price if that ended Ukraine's conflict

> Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people.

I'm vilifying their leadership. But I'm still amazed there is no revolt there

avgcorrection 1091 days ago

> Sorry, I ran out of fucks somewhere in the middle of COVID.

Oh my gosh. Did having to wear masks in public and self-isolating make you a badass on the Internet?

>I'm villifying their leadership.

Do you think the nukes would hit the Kreml? Or potentially millions of innocent civilians?

shepherdjerred 1097 days ago

At what point are the citizens of a country responsible for what the country's military is doing?

Note: not advocating for a nuclear genocide, but I do feel that citizens become culpable if they are allowing their country to stop on others and they aren't protesting or emigrating (if possible)

At the point where they go to war for their tyrant instead of toppling it down.

Well, avoiding the deeper philosophical waters, I would say whatever responsibility is there would depend on how democratic the country is. Russia is very far from being a functioning democracy at the moment. Sure they have elections, but they're likely partially fixed, freedom of the press is a joke, political protest is punished harshly(typically with violence), and opposing political candidates are prosecuted on false charges, jailed, even killed. Given this, I think holding the Russian people as a whole responsible for the war seems unreasonable. Certainly there's some responsibility there in various ways in terms of the personal contributions of individual people. But precisely because Russia is so undemocratic, the distribution of responsibility is heavily distributed onto the oligarchy and military leadership.

But like you say, genocide is never justified, no matter what. And that was mainly what I was reacting to.

I was never talking about hitting any population centers, just using the weapons, that's entirely your misunderstanding.

Also russia is already far on genocide scale looking by their actions in current war

Nope, I'd think that if ever something so bizzare would happen it would be tactical nuke targeted at bigger gathering of wagner forces. Little hitler at power there wouldn't care of a village or two got wiped if alternative was coup succeeding.

watwut 1097 days ago

Russia nuking themselves does not imply that tho. It would be same humanitarian catastrophe as Russia nuking Ukraine, Russia blowing up that nuclear plant in Ukraine they are currently likely planning to blow, Russia blowing up the damm.

Meaning, it would be exactly the same humanitarian disaster as Russia is comiting elsewhere right now. Only difference is that a.) nationality of innocent victims b.) event that harms Russia itself as opposed event that harms countries around Russia.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm not saying we should somehow care more about Russians than about anyone else. I just don't think Putin nuking cities with millions of people would be hilarious in any sense of the word, and I don't see how that changes based on which side of the border it's on.

oneshtein 1097 days ago

Basically, you say that if two killers will shoot each one, then it's the exact same tragedy as when they shot innocents. In your eyes, offender and defender are both innocent people.

No, this is not what I said. It's so far from what I said or even implied, I'm not even sure how to explain it in a way you won't completely twist around.

I guess this will suffice: a nuclear assault by the Russian state, on Russian soil, is not "two killers shooting eachother"; whether they're aiming for Wagner group is irrelevant, since it would also kill thousands if not millions of civilians. Hence, it is an act of genocide.

I thought this was completely obvious, so I left it implied, but clearly things need to be spelled out to the nth degree around here.

watwut 1097 days ago

Genocide is not defined by number of victims, but rather by intent. If the actual target is Wagner and civilians are "side victims" then it does not fall into genocide definition. If your intent is to destroy some group in population, for them to not exist, then it becomes genocide. Even if you fail to kill that many people of use non lethal methods.

Oh, you're right, I change my mind. It would be hilarious after all.

What point are you even trying to make here?

watwut 1097 days ago

> Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people

Sure. But let also admit that the support for Ukrainian war and actual ongoing genocide in Ukraine is high in Russia.

Sure, but let's also not pretend the average Russian has unfettered access to independent media.

They haven't started killing people for using VPNs yet so I think more correct statement is that they are too stupid to look for that access, or too ignorant or brainwashed to keep believing official propaganda.

I don't think it's more correct. But if you wanted to keep arguing for the sake of it, I agree that's the point you'd make. Good job. "Unfettered access" now means "can use a VPN without being killed for it". Sure.

oneshtein 1097 days ago

Nuclear genocide != nuclear suicide. Russian people started the war. Majority of Russians support war with Ukraine even today, with hope that they kill all Ukrainians and occupy their territory, to show their power to Rotten West. They sad that their leader is too weak to nuke Washington and London.

"...it is distressing to see the [British] press grovelling in the gutter as low as Goebbels in his prime, shrieking that any German commander who holds out in a desperate situation (when, too, the military needs of his side clearly benefit) is a drunkard, and a besotted fanatic. ... There was a solemn article in the local [Oxford] paper seriously advocating systematic exterminating of the entire German nation as the only proper course after military victory: because, if you please, they are rattlesnakes, and don't know the difference between good and evil! (What of the writer?) The Germans have just as much right to declare the Poles and Jews exterminable vermin, subhuman, as we have to select the Germans: in other words, no right, whatever they have done."

J.R.R. Tolkien, 1944, in a letter to his son, commenting on British war-time propaganda.

Eg: https://www.amazon.com/x-girl-P-TPS-XG1-Collaboration-Stylus...

justsomehnguy 1097 days ago

Very apt quote, sadly.

Offtopic:

Regarding your Ask HN thread - some years ago I used (well, tried to) a small smartphone stylus which 'docked' in the headphone socket so it would be always with the phone. It wasn't good for me, because it wasn't sensitive enough for sketching, but overall it was fine for navigating the UI.

If your phone has no 3.5 jack but you use a case it can be attached to the case.

Maybe you can try to use a notebook style case, so your palms would sweat the case, not the phone and therefore you would have a bit less trouble with false touches.

Tolkien was a shockingly wise man for his time. I've been enjoying reading his letters lately. Adds so much context to his fictional work as well.

Hah, well thank you! Luckily the hyperhidrosis has since passed, since it was just a temporary side effect from medication. But I'm definitelly gonna get one of these anyway, because it will definitely be an issue again sometime in the future.