[HyperSane]

Trump shouldn't blatently commit crimes if he doesn't want to be charged with them.

    Willful retention of national defense information: This charge, covering counts 1-31, only applies to Trump and is for allegedly storing 31 such documents at Mar-a-Lago.

    Conspiracy to obstruct justice: Trump and Nauta, along with others, are charged with conspiring to keep those documents from the grand jury.

    Withholding a document or a record: Trump and Nauta are accused of misleading one of their attorneys by moving boxes of classified documents so the attorney could not find or introduce them to the grand jury.

    Corruptly concealing a document or record: This pertains to the Trump and Nauta's alleged attempts to hide the boxes of classified documents from the attorney.
    Concealing a document in a federal investigation: They are accused of hiding Trump's continued possession of those documents at Mar-a-Lago from the FBI and causing a false certificate to be submitted to the FBI.

    Scheme to conceal: This is for the allegation that Trump and Nauta hid Trump's continued possession of those materials from the FBI and the grand jury.

    False statements and representations: This count concerns statements that Trump allegedly caused another one of his attorneys to make to the FBI and grand jury in early June regarding the results of the search at Mar-a-Lago.

    False statements and representations: This final count accuses Nauta of giving false answers during a voluntary interview with the FBI in late May.

According to the indictment, each one of those charges carries a maximum fine of $250,000, with maximum prison sentences between five and 20 years.

[creato]

Some of which that Trump himself signed into law, specifically because he was trying to jail his political opponent at the time.

[dukeofdoom]

either Trump, the only elected official of the executive branch has the highest authority over the executive branch or the archivist has a higher authority than him? if the latter is true, then effectively your third branch is no longer run by a president. The documents where created by his administration. He can have a copy as much as you can have a copy of your business record or tax returns. Further every dictator in existence was claiming to rule under the authority of the law, and claimed arrest opposition candidates under such authority. Resorting to arresting your opposition rings hallow to anyone with some shred of common sense.

[acdha]

Trump is not above the law. At least some of the documents (nuclear secrets) are not ones that the president has the legal right to declassify – the statute specifically limits that process – so his only option would have been to pardon himself, but he didn’t even want to admit having done this at the time and likes to pretend that he’s innocent, so he didn’t.

[dukeofdoom]

Espionage Act doesn't apply to him. Your president is not a spy, lol.

The document about nuclear secrets he's alleged to be in possession of is the nuclear capability of a foreign country. It's an open secret that it's Israel that has nuclear weapons.

So you want to jail your former president, and leading candidate for 100 years over this document?

I think we both know it's not about that.

Suppose Trump has documents on the letter agencies committing crimes. And they want them back to destroy.

Should presidents be subjugated by them, than who really will be running the country?

[HyperSane]

"Espionage Act doesn't apply to him. "

Yes it does. Why wouldn't it? the US has presidents not Kings.

> Your president is not a spy

Then why was Trump acting like one?

> So you want to jail your former president,

Anyone else who handled classified docs the way he did would be in jail for a minimum of 10 years.

You really don't have a clue how the US government works.

[dukeofdoom]

The president is the head of the bureaucracy. He's the source authority. Classification is for his benefit, so that people under him don't disclose secret information. However as the source authority, he can disclose at will.

You don't have to take my word for it.

Here's a Lawyer going over all the legal and constitutionals problems with this indictment.

https://rumble.com/v2tn4ac-get-this-video-to-trump-barnes-br...

[_kbh_]

> The president is the head of the bureaucracy. He's the source authority. Classification is for his benefit, so that people under him don't disclose secret information. However as the source authority, he can disclose at will.

Its a shame that he admitted on tape that he didn't declassify or couldn't declassify the documents he took, and that he shouldn't be in possession of them.

[HyperSane]

Shocked by how many Trump Cultists are on Hacker News.

[acdha]

There’s been an intense, well-funded libertarianism outreach effort for decades and it’s been especially pronounced in the tech sector where relatively high wages and negotiating power let a lot of people tell themselves that they’re in the same group as their CEO, and should vote to give them a tax cut (surely I’ll need that, too!) and freedom from paying for externalities, etc. That meant voting for Republicans over the years and saying that the people they voted for probably wouldn’t really do all of the anti-liberty things they promised to do.

After doing that, for some it’s easier to support Trump than admit making so many mistakes for years. There’s an entire media empire devoted to supporting that decision.

[pessimizer]

Shocked by how easy it was to convince liberals that the Espionage Act was a wonderful thing. The ACLU was started to oppose it.

[HyperSane]

The world is a mean and dangerous place, with genteel civilization a very thin veneer on top. Top secret documents are usually classified as such because the information they contain would cause severe harm to the United States if leaked. Names of spies and design and operations of nuclear weapons are top secret. Leaking the names of spies would get them killed.

[HyperSane]

You are speaking complete rubbish. Trump didn't have a right to those docs, and he knew it. And speaking of dictators, Trump did try very hard to overturn a fair election he lost.

Indictment says Trump lied, schemed to keep highly classified secrets The former president faces 37 criminal charges. His longtime valet, Walt Nauta, faces six charges. Former president Donald Trump stashed sensitive intelligence secrets in a bathroom, his bedroom and a ballroom at Mar-a-Lago, according to a scathing 49-page indictment unsealed Friday against him and a loyal servant who is accused of lying to cover up his boss’s alleged crimes.

The grand jury indictment tells a story of hubris and hypocrisy, describing a wealthy former president living among neck-high stacks of boxes with classified documents scattered inside them, sometimes literally spilling out of their containers. In the prosecutors’ telling, neither Trump nor any of his aides or lawyers appeared bothered by the sprawl of sensitive papers until government agents came calling. Then, the former commander in chief allegedly set out to hide some of what he had.

[dukeofdoom]

We don't have a Constitutionally permitted secret police with power over the President about secrecy. It just can't be that way and have a functioning democracy. President is commander-in-chief under Constitution. He determines what's classified. Espionage Act doesn't apply to him. Finally, The Presidential Records Act (PRA) allows a President access to documents, both classified and unclassified, once he leaves office.

>Former president Donald Trump stashed sensitive intelligence secrets in a >bathroom, his bedroom and a ballroom at Mar-a-Lago,

You mean like a bathroom in a hotel room turned into a storage room. The horror, lol. The Mar-A-Lago is a large hotel and his residence. Part of it is public the other private. There is security guarding one from the other. Literally nonsense. You're being manipulated by out of context pictures, of boxes that you don't even know what those boxes contain.

> The grand jury indictment tells a story of ...

The prosecution will always frame their accusations in a most biased damming way. And routinely make allegations that are false or unprovable. The Grand Jury will only hear their side.

[HyperSane]

"We don't have a Constitutionally permitted secret police with power over the President about secrecy."

Yes we do. If you think any president can read any classified document he wants to you are completely wrong.

> He determines what's classified

False, and Trump is a very good example of why it would be a very bad idea.

> You mean like a bathroom in a hotel room turned into a storage room.

When will you freaks get tired of selling your souls to defend this complete dumpster fire of a human being?

[dukeofdoom]

Sorry but that's incorrect. The President is granted access to classified information on a need-to-know basis, meaning they must have a legitimate reason to access that particular information for the purpose of carrying out their duties. This is the only restriction, if the bureaucrats are following the law, and he's following the law, he will get access to any secret information if he needs it.

If you think about it, it must be this way because otherwise a secret government would in charge. In fact this is what the entire confrontation is about.

Do we want the only elected representative, and the Person on top of the Executive branch, to be able to tell us what the government is up to. Or do we want a deepstate shadowy government that commits crimes, and has the right to even censor the president from telling us about it.

Keep in mind at least with the president, you can vote in or vote out. You can't get rid of the shadowy bureaucrats, that don't need your vote.

They're about to spend multiple billions of dollars on a new gigantic FBI headquarters. Do you want these giant organizations sucking up more and more control over your government and people.