[poo-yie]

I routinely go out and pick up trash along some of the nearby streets in my neighborhood. Unfortunately, my setup is not nearly as impressive. It's sad to see the amount of trash that people throw. Beer cans, drink cups, cigarette butts, plastic wrappers, beer bottles, etc. I pick up trash because I hate seeing it and the exercise is good for me.

[jetrink]

Last year I moved onto a street that had a ton of litter. I lived with it for about a month before I realized how easy it would be to walk a loop and pick it all up. For the first six weeks or so, I would fill two 20L garbage bags and by the next weekend, there would be another 40L of garbage waiting for me. Then something great happened: the amount of litter began decreasing. Soon I only needed to take one bag with me and recently I've been coming home with it only half full. Keeping the street clean has actually led to fewer people littering in the first place. It's a really great feeling to see such an improvement for so little effort and I would encourage anyone who enjoys walking outside to give it a try.

[cschneid]

I've seen similar situations too. It seems that people see minor social transgressions like littering as a percentage of guilt.

Already 20 pieces of junk on the ground, whatever, one more is 5% of the total.

Nothing there, My thing would be 100% of the junk on the ground, can't do that.

[KronisLV]

> Already 20 pieces of junk on the ground, whatever, one more is 5% of the total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

> In criminology, the broken windows theory states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes.

The same probably applies to things like littering as well, somewhat.

[kibwen]

Broken window theory gets (rightfully, IMO) criticized because it tries to make an unjustified logical leap between crimes of a wildly different degree of severity.

I'm not trying to argue against the premise above that seeing litter makes people more likely to litter; in fact, I agree with it. Humans are monkey-see monkey-do creatures. The problem is that "monkey sees broken window, monkey does murder" is not how this works. It's a weirdly authoritarian way of thinking that suggests that criminality is not only objective, but a tidy spectrum.

[autoexec]

The flaw with broken windows theory was that it was used to justify excessive and abusive police actions. Cleaning up trash, turning vacant lots into parks and pleasant spaces, keeping public areas well maintained, and generally making it look like people give a shit about where they live really does make a huge difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ02VLZ_Ey0

[throwway120385]

Another thing the police can do is try to solve problems beyond stopping lawbreakers. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing. These things really do matter.

[lostlogin]

Your link has criticism of the theory which is worth considering.

That said, it’s hard to imagine that excess litter collection could lead to minorities getting bashed by the police.

[poo-yie]

That's great! I was hoping that something similar would happen where I live. I think it has decreased, but still too much.

[theposey]

very cool of you to do this.

I am on the verge of doing something like this along a through-way in our neighborhood. I think I could probably get a lot of buy-in from the community.

[EricE]

broken windows theory

[droopyEyelids]

I'm also a trash picking up guy, got a bucket and a grabber stick I take on my dog walks.

I do not find it sad but it does give me endless stuff to think about.

One thing is that when people litter (or leave dog poop on the grass) they sort of think they're "getting away with it" because no one will catch them. I realized that's a childish perspective on morality, the reason not to litter is that it improves the quality of your community- not to avoid punishment!

Another thing I think about is how we're all interconnected, and there are a million dimensions where you have to pull your weight or else someone else ends up with your extra burden. This is again especially apparent with children, who innocently leave messes or avoid chores, without realizing that what they're doing is assigning the chore to a parent.

I think of all these people littering as not pulling their weight in the dimension of litter, but that makes me think that in other areas they might be pulling extra weight, like they're in a rush because their employer doesn't pay enough for them to outsource their tasks, or they're using alcohol as a coping mechanism and need to sneak their beers in the car and can't bring the cans in the house to throw them away. And the worst case is someone who is sort of burned out on the web of interconnectedness, and not pulling their weigh in any dimension, being a burden on everyone else. That's kind of sad but it doesn't make me hate those people because I've been that guy at times in my life, and now I can at least pay back the loans I've taken in some small way.

[dfxm12]

the people never grew to realize the reason not to litter is that it improves the quality of your community- it's not to avoid punishment!

It's very frustrating to see people comment about this stuff on a neighborhood subreddit or next door. It's a predictable cycle. Whether it's people littering or whether there's a windy trash day, people complain about trash on the sidewalk and about how it's a sign the city has gone to the dogs. I will suggest they can pick it up if it bothers them so much, let alone out of a sense civic pride, they act like I took their first born! I just don't get it...

[jstarfish]

> I will suggest they can pick it up if it bothers them so much, let alone out of a sense civic pride [...] I just don't get it...

It's actually really simple.

Imagine you have a co-worker that doesn't do their job. You complain about it and are told "well, you have time enough to complain, maybe you could take on some of his tasks." Now you're doing the job of two people and the colleague continues avoiding accountability for his incompetence.

It's bully logic. The problem isn't that I'm punching you, it's that you're being too loud in crying about it.

Burdening critics with extra work is not the solution to upstream problems. The problem is people littering, not a lack of people willing to pick it up.

[jerf]

This is like the opposite of the Tragedy of the Commons. If everyone in your neighborhood pitches in and picks up trash, it will be clean. If nobody does, it will inevitably decay. Doesn't even have to be littering; things blow in, accidents happen, trash blows away, stuff happens.

The residents of your neighborhood will collectively decide what kind of neighborhood they live in by the actions they take. Whether you find this morally offensive, morally harmonious, or some complicated other combination doesn't affect the brute fact of the matter.

[droopyEyelids]

Your logic is flawless, the problem is that you're using it to come up with a reason why not to clean up the yard/neighborhood/etc.

This means things don't improve!

[jstarfish]

Thanks, but nothing I said should lead to that conclusion. There will always be incidental debris. It helps when more than just a handful of people bother to clean it up. It also helps when people don't deliberately add to their workload.

[ad404b8a372f2b9]

It might be the implication, "If it bothers them so much"...

I pick stuff up occasionally but I can't make up for a city of people who don't care to pick up their own trash. If I complain about it and you suggest in anyway that if I cared I should pickup after grown adults who don't care to act in a basic civilized manner I would find that very grating.

Civic pride needs to be collective.

[droopyEyelids]

I get it. Before I was injured in a car crash I didn't have the grabber stick, and it was such a frustrating, gross experience to pick up trash people left on my parkway- had to touch it with my hand and then carry it in my house to clean it.

I got the grabber stick in physical therapy though, and found a bucket in the alley and it clicked. That made cleaning stuff far more realistic.

[hooverd]

There's always gloves.

[fasouto]

I have a small farm on the outskirts of the city where nobody lives. When I'm there I usually pick up other people's rubbish and it gets on my nerves to see that the next week it's full of shit again.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, I think I'm going to look at it differently from now on.

[prmoustache]

I am considering mounting a bucket and a grabber stick on my paddle surf board. The amount of plastic shit I see in the sea while paddle surfing is depressing.

[droopyEyelids]

Do it! feels great to empty a bucket of trash into the trash can after picking it all up.

but it also feels bad if you see more trash you could grab and can't fit it in the bucket anymore

[latchkey]

Don't go to SE Asia.

[SCUSKU]

Any tips on the best gear for picking up trash? Right now my setup is pretty simple, I just have a trash picker, a trash bag, and disposable gloves. I want to me able to pick up more trash per unit time, so while the samurai back baskets are an interesting idea, I'm not sure I'd want to risk putting garbage over my head/face. A lot of trash I pick up is bags of poop so :/

[toast0]

I find a bucket easier to use than a trashbag, but the bucket fills faster. If you really want to do a lot of trash, you might get a rolling bin to bring with you?

[bombcar]

It also depends on how many trash cans are around. If there are a few (and you know where to get to them) a bucket can be dumped multiple times.

Otherwise you want something bigger, preferably on wheels. Though you can do the classic where you fill bags and leave them by the road and come back later to pick them up in a vehicle.

You can even get permission from the city to drive down bike paths to pick them up, though a cart on a bike would probably work as well.

[mc32]

Great comment. One disappointment is many people will not outgrow the borrower phase even when they have the resources to do so and become a lender. Also it’s okay if you neither borrow nor lend, it’s neutral.

[jacquesm]

Better than lender = giver.

[jacquesm]

Spot on, it's the whole attitude towards not caring what is right but what you can get away with. Endless frustration with that.

[snapcaster]

This was a really great comment, thanks for taking the time to post it gave me food for thought

[ZeroGravitas]

I saw a reference recently to "plogging" which is a combination of picking up litter and jogging. Think it was a Chinese thing, but may have been Japan.

edit: looked it up, apparently originally Swedish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plogging

[helsinkiandrew]

David Sedaris, the American writer/satirist, has made a name for himself in the UK by picking up litter on the street:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2014/jul/31/davi...

[antihero]

Deposit schemes for stuff like bottles are great, I don’t know why more places don’t do them

[0xffff2]

They're ubiquitous in the US. All they seem to do is encourage the destitute to pick through other people's trash.

[Gh0stRAT]

People picking through trash beats recyclables going to the landfill. (assuming the trash-pickers don't pull trash out of the can and throw it on the ground in their haste to find recyclables, anyway) So from that perspective, I'm glad someone is doing it.

But on the other hand, it's tragic that people are so desperate for the small sums to be had from recycling that they spend their days digging through other peoples' trash like that.

[MisterTea]

> But on the other hand, it's tragic that people are so desperate for the small sums to be had from recycling that they spend their days digging through other peoples' trash like that.

Not all of them are destitute. There are collectors who now own homes thanks to bottle and can deposits. My neighbors across the street moved in few years ago and I saw the garage open - front to back, side to side, top to bottom PACKED with bags of bottles and cans. Thousands of them. Spoke to their neighbor and they told him collecting bottles paid for most of the house. Few blocks down there's an apartment building with ground level garages and again, one of them is fully packed with bags of bottles and cans - plans in motion. This is in NYC too.

Imagine how clean the planet would be if all packaging had a deposit.

[Broken_Hippo]

They're ubiquitous in the US

Not really. I think only 10 states have plastic bottle deposits, and I have really no clue if those are convenient for folks. I'm not from one of those states: You could take aluminum cans to get money, but it isn't convenient.

(In my current location, I can just take plastic and aluminum bottles to a grocery store to get the deposit back by feeding them into a machine. And most folks do this)

[jstarfish]

I haven't seen the "un-vending" machines outside of NY.

We have to take everything to the recycling center, wait in a long-ass line and they pay by weight, not item.

It's not worth my time to bring single bags nor worth the space to hoard them at home so I just trade them to the neighborhood homeless guy for expired dog food and other sundries.

[Broken_Hippo]

I think that places where I live (Norway) have to take back the bottles that they sell in their store - even gas stations - but the only place I see the machines is at the grocery stores. (Grocery stores are generally smaller but more convenient than they were in the US).

And it is by item - less money for small bottles (single serve soda, for example) and more money for larger bottles (1L of soda or juice). Aluminum is similar.

[atdrummond]

Vermont has them as well (or at least did when I lived in Burlington a few years back).

[weberer]

I've seen them outside supermarkets in Boston.

[antihero]

You’re complaining about people benefiting from your literal trash?

[gertlex]

It does vary quite a bit in implementation, with corresponding differences in results.

In Michigan (10c deposit), grocery stores have dedicated areas for machines that receive the bottles and give you the credit back. I grew up setting cans aside for return (and having dedicated bins for folks parking for sport events, with proceeds going towards e.g. Cub Scouts and similar)

In CA (5c deposit), apparently you have to take your recyclables to a recycle center, where I think they pay based on weight. I've never bothered.

And it is true there will be people picking through public trash cans, in both situations.

[boomboomsubban]

10/50 states have them, though as two are California and New York it's slightly higher then 20% of the population.

[BowBun]

I agree with your second statement. I've never known anyone in the US that is employed+housed that keeps their bottles for returns.

On the other hand, in Belgium it's pretty normal to keep your case of empty beer bottles and return them at the grocery store when you go the next time.

There's definitely something cultural at play. I wonder if the strong capitalistic ideals in the US make it seem like a low-return effort or if it's looked down upon like going through trash. We also simply waste a lot of things in the US (food, throw-away culture, fast casual clothing, disposable electronics), so it may just be an extension of that too.

[dunham]

We always saved ours and returned them when I was a kid in Michigan - they were about 10 cents each and were returned to the grocery store where you bought it. I also remember we once had a teacher in high school tell us he made $1000 picking up cans, and a smart-ass kid asked if he reported that on his taxes.

But this varies a lot state-to-state. In San Francisco, it seemed to be the poor with carts picking up cans. (And the recycling company wanted you to report people for digging through the bins.) I think the deposit was rather low there and had no idea where you can return them to.

[kwhitefoot]

So the 'other people' are too lazy to take the bottles back to the store that they are already going to?

[cultofmetatron]

dunno why you're being downvoted. I had homeless people rummage through my trash. at first I was ok with it but they would just leave it strewn out everywhere like racoons and I'd have to clean it up. so I had to lock it up.

[codyb]

The alternative might be to lock up everything but leave the cans in a separate bag for the people who want to collect them? Aluminum's one of the few things that does get recycled well and it's pretty energy intensive to get new aluminum. That's the one I always try to recycle, plastic and the rest... I'm not convinced it doesn't end up in the landfill anyways.

[toast0]

Aluminum is usually sorted out to recycling. Unless the volume is really low, the economics are there: there's demand for used aluminum, it's easy to sort out, and in many places trash collection has state goals for diversion that may need to be met.

[cultofmetatron]

if they had come around and put everything back after, I would have been fine with leaving it separate to make it easier for them. waking up to a massive trash pile strewn about everywhere made me lose all respect for these people.

[codyb]

Ha, ya, you and the rest of society, really going to great lengths to make life harder for the people digging through trash for a nickel a can... I have a feeling maybe that you're really kind of asking for a lot from the people who're probably the least well off in our society... Do you think the person digging through your trash feels respected ever?

[supertofu]

In big cities like NYC people straight up make their living picking up cans.

Even in the small town where I live upstate, some folks deposit cans for a bit of extra income. It's a useful program.

[bombcar]

I’ve always thought that if every American picked up one piece of trash each day, we’d remove a lot of trash very quickly and get some exercise, too.

[winrid]

I love doing this. Mostly within a block or so. I get plenty this way - I think a lot of it blows out of nearby recycle/garbage bins...

[supertofu]

There are some local groups in LA that get together just to pick up trash. Seems like a great community activity.