[droopyEyelids]

I'm also a trash picking up guy, got a bucket and a grabber stick I take on my dog walks.

I do not find it sad but it does give me endless stuff to think about.

One thing is that when people litter (or leave dog poop on the grass) they sort of think they're "getting away with it" because no one will catch them. I realized that's a childish perspective on morality, the reason not to litter is that it improves the quality of your community- not to avoid punishment!

Another thing I think about is how we're all interconnected, and there are a million dimensions where you have to pull your weight or else someone else ends up with your extra burden. This is again especially apparent with children, who innocently leave messes or avoid chores, without realizing that what they're doing is assigning the chore to a parent.

I think of all these people littering as not pulling their weight in the dimension of litter, but that makes me think that in other areas they might be pulling extra weight, like they're in a rush because their employer doesn't pay enough for them to outsource their tasks, or they're using alcohol as a coping mechanism and need to sneak their beers in the car and can't bring the cans in the house to throw them away. And the worst case is someone who is sort of burned out on the web of interconnectedness, and not pulling their weigh in any dimension, being a burden on everyone else. That's kind of sad but it doesn't make me hate those people because I've been that guy at times in my life, and now I can at least pay back the loans I've taken in some small way.

[dfxm12]

the people never grew to realize the reason not to litter is that it improves the quality of your community- it's not to avoid punishment!

It's very frustrating to see people comment about this stuff on a neighborhood subreddit or next door. It's a predictable cycle. Whether it's people littering or whether there's a windy trash day, people complain about trash on the sidewalk and about how it's a sign the city has gone to the dogs. I will suggest they can pick it up if it bothers them so much, let alone out of a sense civic pride, they act like I took their first born! I just don't get it...

[jstarfish]

> I will suggest they can pick it up if it bothers them so much, let alone out of a sense civic pride [...] I just don't get it...

It's actually really simple.

Imagine you have a co-worker that doesn't do their job. You complain about it and are told "well, you have time enough to complain, maybe you could take on some of his tasks." Now you're doing the job of two people and the colleague continues avoiding accountability for his incompetence.

It's bully logic. The problem isn't that I'm punching you, it's that you're being too loud in crying about it.

Burdening critics with extra work is not the solution to upstream problems. The problem is people littering, not a lack of people willing to pick it up.

[jerf]

This is like the opposite of the Tragedy of the Commons. If everyone in your neighborhood pitches in and picks up trash, it will be clean. If nobody does, it will inevitably decay. Doesn't even have to be littering; things blow in, accidents happen, trash blows away, stuff happens.

The residents of your neighborhood will collectively decide what kind of neighborhood they live in by the actions they take. Whether you find this morally offensive, morally harmonious, or some complicated other combination doesn't affect the brute fact of the matter.

[droopyEyelids]

Your logic is flawless, the problem is that you're using it to come up with a reason why not to clean up the yard/neighborhood/etc.

This means things don't improve!

[jstarfish]

Thanks, but nothing I said should lead to that conclusion. There will always be incidental debris. It helps when more than just a handful of people bother to clean it up. It also helps when people don't deliberately add to their workload.

[ad404b8a372f2b9]

It might be the implication, "If it bothers them so much"...

I pick stuff up occasionally but I can't make up for a city of people who don't care to pick up their own trash. If I complain about it and you suggest in anyway that if I cared I should pickup after grown adults who don't care to act in a basic civilized manner I would find that very grating.

Civic pride needs to be collective.

[droopyEyelids]

I get it. Before I was injured in a car crash I didn't have the grabber stick, and it was such a frustrating, gross experience to pick up trash people left on my parkway- had to touch it with my hand and then carry it in my house to clean it.

I got the grabber stick in physical therapy though, and found a bucket in the alley and it clicked. That made cleaning stuff far more realistic.

[hooverd]

There's always gloves.

[fasouto]

I have a small farm on the outskirts of the city where nobody lives. When I'm there I usually pick up other people's rubbish and it gets on my nerves to see that the next week it's full of shit again.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, I think I'm going to look at it differently from now on.

[prmoustache]

I am considering mounting a bucket and a grabber stick on my paddle surf board. The amount of plastic shit I see in the sea while paddle surfing is depressing.

[droopyEyelids]

Do it! feels great to empty a bucket of trash into the trash can after picking it all up.

but it also feels bad if you see more trash you could grab and can't fit it in the bucket anymore

[latchkey]

Don't go to SE Asia.

[SCUSKU]

Any tips on the best gear for picking up trash? Right now my setup is pretty simple, I just have a trash picker, a trash bag, and disposable gloves. I want to me able to pick up more trash per unit time, so while the samurai back baskets are an interesting idea, I'm not sure I'd want to risk putting garbage over my head/face. A lot of trash I pick up is bags of poop so :/

[toast0]

I find a bucket easier to use than a trashbag, but the bucket fills faster. If you really want to do a lot of trash, you might get a rolling bin to bring with you?

[bombcar]

It also depends on how many trash cans are around. If there are a few (and you know where to get to them) a bucket can be dumped multiple times.

Otherwise you want something bigger, preferably on wheels. Though you can do the classic where you fill bags and leave them by the road and come back later to pick them up in a vehicle.

You can even get permission from the city to drive down bike paths to pick them up, though a cart on a bike would probably work as well.

[mc32]

Great comment. One disappointment is many people will not outgrow the borrower phase even when they have the resources to do so and become a lender. Also it’s okay if you neither borrow nor lend, it’s neutral.

[jacquesm]

Better than lender = giver.

[jacquesm]

Spot on, it's the whole attitude towards not caring what is right but what you can get away with. Endless frustration with that.

[snapcaster]

This was a really great comment, thanks for taking the time to post it gave me food for thought