[null3cksor]

Ugh , wait till you hear about green card process for Indians. Despite living here legally for past 15 years, I might have to wait for another 10 to just get permenant residency.

And if it is going to be this hard, why do I have to pay social security and medicare taxes? I call it a donation/yearly fees at this point, working with such a shady system.

[dilippkumar]

> 10 years

From the Congressional research service's report on immigration backlog [1] (note: this was before covid), for applicants from India, the projected backlogs for various employment-based green card applications applying in 2020 were:

    EB-1: 8 years.
    EB-2: 195 years.
    EB-3: 27 years.

Projecting out to 2030, the report says (for Indian applicants):

    EB-1: 18 years.
    EB-2: 436 years.
    EB-3: 48 years.

I performed a linear extrapolation using the 2020 and 2030 estimates. Two points and a straight line through them gives:

         eb-1 eb-2 eb-3
    2024 12   292  36
    2023 11   268  34
    2022 10   244  32
    2021 9    220  30
    2020 8    195  27
    2019 7    171  25
    2018 6    147  23
    2017 5    123  21
    2016 4    99   19
    2015 3    75   17
    2014 2    51   15
    2013 1    27   13

All numbers in years. The numbers are rounded up to the next highest integer. Note that a straight line through these two points isn't necessarily the correct model but whatever. Also, the covid era immigration policy moved a bunch of dates around, so this may not be as accurate. But it is still the best numbers I could find.

In any case, it is reasonable to assume that anyone with a priority date of 2017 or so will likely retire before your priority date is current.

You (and me) will probably spend an entire career paying for social security and never be eligible for it.

[1]. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46291

[junar]

Why do you think this? According to this chart, citizens of India can receive Social Security benefits with 10 years of work.

https://www.ssa.gov/international/countrylist4.htm

[dragonwriter]

> citizens of India can receive Social Security benefits with 10 years of work.

This is about exceptions to the rule preventing payments outside the United States after 6 months, and is based on more than 10 years of work by the qualified worker.

But the actual worker needs to be a citizen or a legal permanent resident (“green card” holder) [0] to be eligible to either receive benefits themselves or have dependents receive benefits based on their eligibility.

[0] Actually, there’s a few other categories like certain refugees and asylees, but not, general dual-intent non-immigrant visa holders (like H-1B workers.)

[junar]

Do you have a source?

I think you're confusing Supplemental Security Income (SSI) with Social Security retirement benefits. Those are two different things.

[dilippkumar]

I genuinely did not know this. Thanks for sharing!

[robofanatic]

Can the person be Non-US citizen?

[junar]

Yes, the whole point of this list is for non-US citizens. The following brochure provides more details (see in particular page 4 and pages 7-8).

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

[dragonwriter]

Again, note this is about payments for people who have qualified for them either as a qualified worker or as a dependent of one while the recipient is outside of the United States, it is not about the status required to be the worker on the basis of whose eligibility payments are made.

Those are two completely different issues.

[hamstergene]

This could be just the reason why Congress is turning their attention to work visas.

IIRC green card problem began simultaneously with H1B problem, between 2005-2008. It makes sense: if the major entry to the immigration pipeline ends up 75% of Indian nationals, of course the exit for India-born (due to per-country diversity rule) is jammed.

I know backlog growth has a few unrelated causes adding up together, but at least 90% of the mess correlates very well with overuse of H1B and L1B (transfers) by odd consultancy businesses. Other factors don’t seem as important, for example, China has the same population size as India, but its wait time has been growing several times slower. Both problems are clearly connected.

[robofanatic]

Math has nothing to do with the way USCIS works. You never know when/how they move priority dates or make everything "current".

[saiya-jin]

You could have gained Swiss citizenship in less than that (12 years realistically, that includes waiting for 2 years to get interview, could be less). Sure, you have to learn new language to cca decent level (B1), but that's a minuscule effort compared to big picture.

Much more free time for ie visits back home (basically everybody has 25 days of paid leave + various public holidays, and I can be off sick for a long time without any any effect on paycheck), you have top notch medical and school system for free, retirement savings are forever yours and yours only and accessible from anywhere. CHF is stronger than ever, country is historically most stable in the world for past 800 years, extremely low criminality compared to US.

Being treated with respect regardless where you come from or how you look like and bureaucracy working well are additional features. More real freedom than you could ever dream of having in US (maybe unless you are a proper gun nut) is just a cherry on the top of the cake.

[prottog]

> Being treated with respect regardless where you come from or how you look

How about being treated as a Swiss regardless of where you come from or how you look? Say what you will about America, but it is a place where you can become an American in all senses of the word within one generation.

[eldaisfish]

This is an extremely powerful fact about north america (the USA and Canada) that many miss. All of the old world is based around ethnicity. You are either fully accepted and equal or you are not - all based on ethnicity.

This is not the case in the US and Canada. each country has an ugly past but their true strength is in the ability for anyone from anywhere to become fully integrated and equal in their societies.

[Aerbil313]

This is only because America has no real culture. America has global technological monoculture, which gives you infinite freedom as long as you comply with the state’s laws. No wonder adoption is so easy.

[thatfrenchguy]

> Ugh , wait till you hear about green card process for Indians. Despite living here legally for past 15 years, I might have to wait for another 10 to just get permenant residency.

Unless you marry someone who's not from India (does not have to be a green-card holder or an American either). Indians really get screwed by their cultural expectations to marry someone who's also from India.

[mataug]

They can be an Indian citizen who grew up in India, but as long as their birth certificate is from a country other than China & India they can get a green card in a reasonable amount of time.

[yangikan]

A lot of Indians were married before they came to the US.

[thatfrenchguy]

These days, a lot of folks do undergrad in India, then a masters in the US, OPT -> H1B and were definitely not coupled up or married before they came to the US...

[dragonwriter]

> And if it is going to be this hard, why do I have to pay social security and medicare taxes? I

You don’t; no one is requiring you to reside or work outside your country of citizenship; presumably, you have chosen to do so because it provides economic advantage over your other alternatives. (Also, no one is prohibiting you from taking the necessary steps to qualify for a different immigration category, including the unlimited ones that have no quota and therefore no backlog.)

[ROTMetro]

Because you chose to apply to a system that limits the total percentage of recipients taken by nationals of any one country? The USA is pretty public with this information along with publishing applications numbers so if it's a process you are interested in understanding or that could impact you personally you had a lot of information to inform you how it all works and what your odds/wait would be?

[flashgordon]

Dunno if you are aware of the racism behind this. US limits this by country by birth not citizenship. Just being public about this doesn't make it fair or equitable.

[throwaway2729]

Took me twenty years to get it and the only reason it happened in 20 was the increase in number of available green cards due to covid. $5M+ earnings, leading teams of 30+, generating hundreds of millions in income for companies.

[jmpman]

You paying into Social Security without being able to claim, is a feature, not a bug.

[robofanatic]

you might have missed a couple of boats unless your PD > 2014

[esotericimpl]

I'm all for making it easier for my indian friends to become a citizen of the USA.

However, it seems strange to complain about the US naturalization process, when its not easy for me being a US citizen to become a citizen of india.

https://indiancitizenshiponline.nic.in/Ic_GeneralInstruction...

Citizenship of India by naturalization can be acquired by a foreigner (not being an illegal migrant) who is ordinarily resident in India for twelve years (throughout the period of twelve months immediately preceding the date of application and for eleven years in the aggregate in the fourteen years preceding the twelve months) and fulfils other qualifications as specified in third schedule to the act, 1955.

In addition:

1) A copy of valid Foreign Passport

2) A copy of Residential Permit/LTV

3) A copy of Bank Challan in original amounting to Rs.1500/- deposited in the State Bank of India.

4) One affidavit from self (applicant) and two affidavits from two Indians testifying to the character of the applicant in the prescribed language available in the application form. Affidavit to be allotted by Notary/Oath Commissioner/ DM.

5) Two language certificates certifying the applicant’s knowledge in any one of the Indian languages specified in the Eighth Schedule of the Constitution. (A language certificate from a recognized educational institution or from a recognised organisation or from two Indian citizens of the district of the applicant).

6) Two newspaper (circulating in the district in which the applicant resides) cuttings of different dates or of different newspapers notifying his/ her intention to apply for citizenship in the prescribed language available in the application form.

[sa1]

He's talking about residency, and you're talking about citizenship.

[renewiltord]

I suspect most of them will accept a US system that follows those rules, actually, considering 12 is less than 25.

[Bhilai]

Which part of this process is hard for you?

[DesiLurker]

regarding social sec & medicare, it is straight up robbery of legal worker. I understand as a nation you have the right to limit immigration as you see fit but if you really are as morally sound as you claim all this money should be refunded to an immigrant if their application is rejected or dropped because the wait was longer than a reasonable human carrier (40years). This is straight up immoral and punishes people who actually played by the rules.

[irrational]

> if you really are as morally sound as you claim

I think only true fanatic Republicans would claim this. Normal Americans would not claim this, in my experience.

[DesiLurker]

you are missing the larger point, it is often heralded that illegal immigration is immoral & the right thing to do is to wait in line and do it legally. Also, America absolutely claims moral high ground on international stage regularly and uses it to justify use of force when needed.

In case there is any doubt about this, the founding war cry for the country was taxation without representation is basically equivalent to slavery. And then civil war with southern states for the same. How is taking away money from people's paycheck for a service that they'll never use and have no representation into not mini-slavery. I mean if you want to steal that money from down-on-their-luck immigrants then why not just create a new taxrate slab for migrant workers so they have a clear view of what they are getting into.

[irrational]

> How is taking away money from people's paycheck for a service that they'll never use and have no representation into not mini-slavery.

It is, which is why I said that American is not morally sound.