[gorpomon]

Downvotes shall come and that's ok-- but it's really interesting how radically different the experience of filling gas is for men and women. I've had multiple conversations with female friends where they discuss factoring in personal safety and the chance of being bothered while filling gas. It's a captive situation and hard to leave quickly. Aside from the odd request for money, I don't get bothered while filling gas, but that's not true for many many people.

[nickthegreek]

Interestingly enough, if a women can charge at home and doesn't do alot of distant driving, they can cut gas stations out of their life completely with an EV along with predatory mechanics during routine maintenance.

[Spivak]

That second bit is a criminally underserved market. It's fucking stupid that I have to call one of my guy friends to go to the mechanic with me and pretend to be my boyfriend so I don't get ripped off.

If anyone figures out how to align the incentives you'll have a customer base basically immediately.

[hunter2_]

As a guy who gets attempts at being ripped off by mechanics (unnecessary work coming very highly recommended), my solution was not to somehow introduce more masculinity, but to educate myself by hanging out on forums specific to whatever car I'm driving, and mix a bit of that education into the conversation with the shop, bordering on what could come across as knowledge bragging. For example, while waiting for work to finish, I'll watch a video on something it ostensibly needs and then bring up the fact that I did and might DIY it. Typically the service writer will then be on my side instead of seeing me as a money tree, and the frequency of ridiculous recommended work after that drops to almost nothing. Ymmv and indeed people will write posts on those forums with male salutations for no apparent reason, but otherwise that's where I found the truth.

[pwinnski]

Which is great! You only had to exert a bunch of extra effort, and it sounds like you've enjoyed the results.

Now read some stories from women who've also made that extra effort and then some, having more experience and knowledge than the mechanics trying to rip them off, and still being given the runaround more often than not.

A shady mechanic will be shady to some degree to everyone to the degree they think they can get away with it. No amount of self-education on the part of women lets them escape the shadiness.

[lm28469]

> but it's really interesting how radically different the experience of filling gas is for men and women

A lot of things are different, walking at night alone, going for a run in a secluded place, asking random people for direction/a light/&c, ...

[angmarsbane]

Whenever people talk about restaurants completely replacing staff with robots/kiosks I get the same safety fears. I wouldn’t stop at a McDonald’s on a road trip if it didn’t have any staff. More people, like staff, equal more social pressure for potential bad players to act appropriately.

[kube-system]

In my experience, class and income demographics are more significant in this regard than gender.

Even the idea of being "bothered" while filling gas suggests a certain social norm that varies based on which social norms you subscribe to.

[beerandt]

Which is a reason to put them in places where the occupants can get out in a relatively safe place and either be productive (store parking lots) or entertained (zoo).

Yet those are where most 1st gen chargers were placed, and are the same places the quoted woman in the article is complaining about.

Yes they're less convenient, but so is charging an EV (compared to refueling). Until charging only takes 5-10 mins, the best way to offset inconvenience of time is to place chargers in places where you can multitask.

[fullstop]

My wife won't go to certain grocery stores at night because the lighting is poor and she doesn't feel safe.

[JustSomeNobody]

Does HN just not pay attention? Women get hit on, talked up, harassed, pretty much every place they go. Men seem to think it is their right to do this. So, yeah, women want to feel safe.

[dsq]

I don't recall harassing anyone, whether near a charging station or otherwise. Please qualify these sweeping statements. Not “men” in general.

[hunter2_]

"People who harass certain types of people will harass those people" just doesn't convey much information, so it's not worth saying. Any thoughts on how to best phrase this pattern?

[renewedrebecca]

Try to think beyond yourself, just for a bit.

If approximately half of the population is at all afraid to exist in public, then maybe your feelings getting hurt about sweeping statements is a little less important in the grand scheme of things.

It's called empathy, look it up if you need to.

[JustSomeNobody]

Okay. Good for you.

[GiorgioG]

As a man, I’ve had plenty of people come up to me asking for money. I don’t feel any safer being a man in that situation.

[ineedasername]

Maybe you don’t feel particularly safe, but how do you know that many women don’t feel even less safe than your feelings of being unsafe?

[fullstop]

It seems impossible to come to this conclusion if you've never been a woman.

[pwinnski]

You may not feel safe, but "safer" is a comparison word, and I'm not sure on what basis you claim to feel as unsafe as a woman would in the same situation.

[jeffwask]

Do you also fear being sexually assaulted every time you walk to your car in a dark parking garage?

Are you often sexually harassed in public spaces?

An un-housed person asking you for cash at a gas station doesn't put your experience on par with what women experience every day.

I knew the answer in the article was safety before I read it. We live in a society where women feel unsafe in normal situations us men never even consider.

Be better.

[pseudo0]

There is a societal stigma against men admitting fear or nervousness, but statistically men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women: https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-...

[pwinnski]

Moving the goalposts from sexual harassment to violent crime doesn't change reality. I don't know any men who fear violent crime every time they step foot out of the house, unless they are actively involved in a lifestyle that tends to violent crime. Most women I know fear sexual harassment and worse every time they step foot out of the house.

[pseudo0]

Violent crime includes sexual assault and rape. And the GP post is a man discussing his experiences with aggressive panhandling, which can escalate into an assault or attempted mugging. My point is that perceptions of risk and societal willingness to acknowledge risk differs between men and women. Men are incentivized to play down risks to their personal safety to save face, while the dynamic is reversed for women.

As to how this relates to the overall discussion, I'd suspect that men and women have similar safety concerns, but men are just more likely to lie about it on surveys.

[pwinnski]

> I'd suspect that men and women have similar safety concerns, but men are just more likely to lie about it on surveys.

Talk to more women, I'd say.

I have been scared in my life, and I have known many men I would describe as being generally-fearful people, but I have never met any man who spent as much of their life considering physical safety as one of their highest priorities every single day of their lives, and I have talked to many women who describe that feeling in different words.

I think it's good to acknowledge that men can be, and sometimes are, scared. But I think you do a disservice to both men and women when you look at "violent crime" stats (skewed heavily by gang activity most of us will never encounter regardless of gender) and believe that men and women are generally equally concerned about safety. That flies in the face of the experiences of nearly everyone, I think.

Put another way: there are some neighborhoods in which I would not like to walk alone at night, but I have never once worried about being attacked while walking for exercise in a tony suburb in the afternoon. Any time I've encountered a woman while doing so, they would cross the street, be holding keys in their hands, or both. I don't think I'm a scary-looking guy, but as an unknown man they encountered, even in a tony suburb in the afternoon, concern for their safety prompted them to take action.

You don't have to believe me, and I can't convince you. But if you ever listen to women, read women, or even believe the comments you see on this page from women, you might just understand life a little more.

[jeffwask]

All I have is 47 years of life experience and in those years not once has a male friend or acquaintance asked if I could walk them to their car, follow them home, or pretend to be their SO because they felt unsafe in a public situation. The number is significantly higher when I switch the context to female friends.

If you want to play red pill semantic games around it's not safe for men either, I pity you and the lack of empathy and understanding you have.

[pseudo0]

As a 47 year old man, would you feel comfortable asking another man to walk you to your car or follow you home? Or would the social embarrassment of violating cultural norms for men outweigh the perceived safety risk? It is not a "red pill" argument to point out that cultural norms for displaying vulnerability and weakness are different for men and for women.

[jeffwask]

I would and I have. I used to frequent dive bars in sketch neighborhoods and I wouldn't even step out for a smoke without someone else. In college we would regularly group up for walks back from downtown.

It's also very infrequent where the thought of my personal safety crosses my mind in locations like malls, rest stops and gas stations. I've never felt the need to carry pepper spray or a weapon. I've never used my keys as improvised brass knuckles to cross a dimly lit parking lot.

I stroll the world as a master with all the privilege afforded to six foot tall white male.

[unixgoddess]

downvotes shall come because this is HN, but that's ok... perhaps it's time to admit that modern western ideals are not compatible with the natural laws embedded in our body by several hundred thousand years of evolution...

[philipov]

Being civilized is about rising above our base natural instincts.

[unixgoddess]

Why should we be civilized? we should be happy, and choking down our instincts is not how we get to be happy.

[JustSomeNobody]

Yeah! To hell with how other people feel! /sarcasm

Good grief, most people simply don't act like this. Nor should they. Think about that.

[unixgoddess]

I'm someone who's been suffering for years because of some trashy people who do whatever they want without considering their impact on others. I'm not saying it's beautiful. I'm saying it's how life works. Don't like it? stop bringing new people in this world. That's what I'm doing.

About most people not doing it: first, it's a lie; there's a huge amount of rape hidden away in homes. Second: people don't do it because they are scared of the other people with guns and cages; which proves my point that might makes right in the real world.

[jackmott42]

Which ideal specifically are you referring to? Also which natural laws? Are their any natural laws or just natural tendencies?

[unixgoddess]

why was my reply flagged?

I thought on HN intellectual honesty mattered...

In no way was my comment offensive, thoughtless or otherwise worthy of censorship.

[shrimp_emoji]

If nature is unjust, change nature!

https://laboriacuboniks.net/manifesto/xenofeminism-a-politic...

[yreg]

What? I don't want to misinterpret you, so what are you actually saying? Because it sounds like an argument to switch to a Handmaid's Tale-like society.

[JustSomeNobody]

Oh, because you're horny, you think you have a right to chat up every woman you see in every situation you're in?

Time and a place.

[hirundo]

I feel that I have the right to be friendly to every person I see in almost every situation I'm in, including starting to chat with them. If they seem receptive I would feel that I have the right to escalate to flirting ... and then stop if it's not well received. With those provisos I see the time and place for sexual pursuit as most times and most places. But if the other person is not friendly and responsive, and you pursue the "chat up" or flirtation anyhow, that's not right regardless of time or place.

[JustSomeNobody]

> With those provisos I see the time and place for sexual pursuit as most times and most places.

But if collectively, women are saying, no it is not most times and most places, you're in the wrong.

Look, it's really simple. If you want a better chance of meeting someone who might be receptive to your flirting, you do it when they're feeling safe and secure.