[mocko]

Britain has a huge rail preservation community and a lot of their restored trains, many steam, make it out onto the main line.

If you'd like to catch a glimpse of one or even book a seat on it, check out the calendar at http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/tours.html.

[kerrsclyde]

The heritage steam community is under enormous threat because of the UK government attitude to the burning and digging of coal. Troubling times.

[1] https://news.sky.com/story/amp/more-than-150-heritage-steam-...

[justin66]

Are you really troubled that your country is moving beyond using coal as fuel, which was pretty much mankind's next step after burning wood or dung as fuel?

[kerrsclyde]

When coal is burnt to generate electricity or heat homes then no, we have better alternatives.

When it is being used within heritage railways which provider pleasure for so many - see some of the comments on this thread - I feel an exception should be made.

Much coal is still burnt within industrial processes in the UK, cement producers for example. Because this is much less visible and because they are powerful multi-national companies they do not appear to face the same level of scrutiny.

I understand attitudes of younger generations to me. The tide is turning. People will no longer tolerate "polluting for pleasure" and the days of steam railways are numbered. Grab a trip or sight of Tornado whilst you still can!

[hilbert42]

"I feel an exception should be made"

Correct. I wondered how long it would take the do-gooders to start moaning about steam engines/heritage railways and coal use. These quasi-religious zealots need to be put in their place as they are doing more harm than good for the environment. Unnecessarily alienating people doesn't help.

Emissions from heritage steam trains is hardly measurable in the grand scheme of things.

[ElevenLathe]

How viable is it to build (or retrofit) "heritage" steam locomotives with electric boilers? I assume it would be very difficult to run off battery, but maybe draw from the catenary on electrified lines? I know it's not /quite/ the same but I'm curious if this is a road things might go down.

[mocko]

Given the amounts of energy involved and (terrible) thermal efficiency of steam traction it would be impractical. You could short the 25kV overhead wires on an electrified route straight to the boiler and I doubt even that would make sufficient steam to get an express up to speed.

A more practical option would be oil firing, which was tried in the days of steam and found to work, but didn't save enough money to be worth the effort in a country that still had an efficient supply chain for coal. It could be done again now and would doubtless work, but wouldn't smell or look quite the same. Better than nothing I suppose and if coal really does become unavailable, that's what heritage operations will have to do.

[hakfoo]

There were some small steam locomotives switched to electric firing, as a way to use existing infrastructure during wartime coal shortages. It's questionable if it would scale to the levels you'd want to allow a large main-line engine to run at peak performance.

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisse...

[chanakya]

Yes, they actually run at near main-line speeds in the UK (60-80mph). Riding one of those at that speed (particularly at night) must be an awesome experience.

[fredoralive]

It’s a bit pedantic, but on a fair chunk of the main lines trains can run at 125mph, so the 75mph limit for steam locomotives (barring Tornado, which can run at 90) isn’t that close. Various “box on wheels” trains like variants of the Turbostar and Desiro can easily outpace them, let alone real intercity trains.

(Cue nostalgia of the heyday of steam, before all these limits where every steam express definitely managed to hit a ton at some point).

[teh_klev]

Does this matter? There are up and down slow lines and passing loops to accommodate slower trains such as freight and preservation excursions on both the WCML and ECML. Also once you're into Scotland there's very little in the way of 125mph operations. The joy of a steam or historic diesel excursion isn't the speed, it's the being there and enjoying the nostalgia of olde world locomotion and carriages.

Also if you're paying 150-300 GBP for these outings you want the experience to last, not just four hours up the ECML at 125mph and then you're done. I kinda feel people miss the point of this as a thing.

ps: extreme train enthusiast speaking here :)

[gsnedders]

The problem with the speed isn't for the passengers on-board—it's for the rest of the railway.

It's one thing to deal with the operational complexity of relatively slow services when they're freight—which provide a clear commercial and economic benefit—but it's another when it's essentially a luxury service (and I'm well aware plenty of the services aren't really luxurious: but they're certainly too expensive for many, which makes them a luxury).

Their acceleration is relatively poor even compared with many freight services, and when running up the northern ends of the WCML/ECML (both of which are two track railways) the challenges of timetabling _any_ slower services during the day are real.

[teh_klev]

Well these tour operators do pay for track access and pathing just like other TOC's and the rest of the railway will just need to get on with it.

Also when it comes to rail tours such as this there's at most two tours a day operating and they're very seasonal, and maybe running four or five times a year each. So a couple of these trains a day across the whole network isn't exactly impacting the network that much.

[gerdesj]

I remember the HST 125 as it was introduced. Go back to 1980. Two small boys (nine and 10) are stood on the east bound GWR platform at Newton Abbot in Devon, waiting for the Paddington train from Penzance. Will we get a sleek futuristic looking 125 or the usual boring diesel loco?

The rails made a clikkety click/clakkety clack or a CAtic/CAtac sound and more besides which sometimes enabled you to know where you were by the sound. You could also estimate speed with your eyes shut. [I could go on ...]

Anyway. 125mph is shit for something that runs on rails. There are quite a few examples of 180mph+ railway systems.

Sadly, 125mph was considered the future.

[lmm]

> I remember the HST 125 as it was introduced. Go back to 1980. Two small boys (nine and 10) are stood on the east bound GWR platform at Newton Abbot in Devon, waiting for the Paddington train from Penzance. Will we get a sleek futuristic looking 125 or the usual boring diesel loco?

The HST/Intercity 125 was diesel too you know.

[gerdesj]

Yes I know it was but it looked like it ran on rocket fuel. It must have had better exhaust vents too because when the old blunt yellow noses turned up they absolutely stank. The 125 smelled quite a bit too but only as being present rather than stuffing black soot up your nose. I was very young then and I would have been repulsed by anything worse.

Fast forward to today and GWR is a customer and the modern version of the 125 (I forget the Class number - I'm just IT) is still running. I've seen them in bits in Laira (Plymuff) and St Phil's Marsh in Bris'l. The power plant is a bit of a whopper. In the sheds there are dispensers for ear plugs, regularly spaced for quick access. You should try to keep a few in a pocket anyway - ideally all of them! They are quite handy when a technician fires up the motor and decides to run it at max chat.

Back in the day I saw the APT doing trial runs. Nowadays I can take a Pendolino ...

[PaulDavisThe1st]

The coaches have a 75mph limit, which I think is the determining limit for the Tornado tours.

[tialaramex]

Even at 75mph this stuff is all unsafe and wouldn't be legal if it wasn't essentially a museum on wheels.

A modern multiple-unit is way stronger and built from things which are designed to bend and then once they exceed maximum load, tear into non-sharp pieces, which means when (not if) something goes badly wrong it's much more survivable for the occupants. At 5mph you aren't too bothered, but older coaches would deconstruct into sharp pieces in even a 50mph collision so the accident ends up more lethal than it would be if you weren't inside a vehicle at all.

Years back a cement mixer truck fell off a bridge onto a moving train. It was a modern design, and so even though obviously such a truck is incredibly heavy it just dented the train and the person directly below the impact inside the train survived (with some injuries). With the older carriages used on a heritage railway it would have demolished the entire carriage and turned everybody inside it into paste, the emergency response would have been recovering remains, not rescuing one guy with head injuries and a bunch of scared but otherwise unharmed passengers.

[AnimalMuppet]

For those of us not fluent in UK slang, what does a "ton" mean in this context?

[implements]

It has British sub-cultural roots:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocker_(subculture)

During the 1950s, they were known as "Ton-Up boys" because doing a ton is English slang for driving at a speed of 100 mph (160 km/h) or over.

[gsnedders]

100mph

[Symbiote]

I have done this as a child with my grandparents, but I'm not sure there's that much difference from an old/worn (less smooth) commuter train at a similar speed.

For a child, I think a better experience is visiting a larger preserved railway. I liked visiting the locomotive works at Loughborough (Great Central) since age 8 or so I was shorter than the largest wheels of most locomotives. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but back then we could walk close enough to risk getting grease on our clothes. From Google review photos it looks like it.

(From the article, I'm still shorter! They're over 2m in diameter.)

[mocko]

It's very atmospheric, an absolute joy. But the best part has to be turning up at Victoria in the middle of the evening rush in an 80 year old steam train. The looks on people's faces alone are worth the price :)

[a_c]

This is perfect. Hopefully I can find some seats in April. My son is going to love it :)

Edit: I wonder how to book a ticket, e.g. the 22nd April London to Winchester one?

[Symbiote]

https://www.steamdreams.co.uk/tours.php?tourid=72721

Found by searching the company name in the final column.

[timthorn]

Even if you can't get a seat on a mainline trip, there are plenty of lines operating at lower speed that you could just turn up to. Some of the bigger names include the Great Central Railway, Severn Valley Railway, Bluebell Line, North Yorkshire Moors Railway... But there are plenty more across the country. That's one of the positive legacies of the Beeching cuts.