[fredoralive]

It’s a bit pedantic, but on a fair chunk of the main lines trains can run at 125mph, so the 75mph limit for steam locomotives (barring Tornado, which can run at 90) isn’t that close. Various “box on wheels” trains like variants of the Turbostar and Desiro can easily outpace them, let alone real intercity trains.

(Cue nostalgia of the heyday of steam, before all these limits where every steam express definitely managed to hit a ton at some point).

[teh_klev]

Does this matter? There are up and down slow lines and passing loops to accommodate slower trains such as freight and preservation excursions on both the WCML and ECML. Also once you're into Scotland there's very little in the way of 125mph operations. The joy of a steam or historic diesel excursion isn't the speed, it's the being there and enjoying the nostalgia of olde world locomotion and carriages.

Also if you're paying 150-300 GBP for these outings you want the experience to last, not just four hours up the ECML at 125mph and then you're done. I kinda feel people miss the point of this as a thing.

ps: extreme train enthusiast speaking here :)

[gsnedders]

The problem with the speed isn't for the passengers on-board—it's for the rest of the railway.

It's one thing to deal with the operational complexity of relatively slow services when they're freight—which provide a clear commercial and economic benefit—but it's another when it's essentially a luxury service (and I'm well aware plenty of the services aren't really luxurious: but they're certainly too expensive for many, which makes them a luxury).

Their acceleration is relatively poor even compared with many freight services, and when running up the northern ends of the WCML/ECML (both of which are two track railways) the challenges of timetabling _any_ slower services during the day are real.

[teh_klev]

Well these tour operators do pay for track access and pathing just like other TOC's and the rest of the railway will just need to get on with it.

Also when it comes to rail tours such as this there's at most two tours a day operating and they're very seasonal, and maybe running four or five times a year each. So a couple of these trains a day across the whole network isn't exactly impacting the network that much.

[gerdesj]

I remember the HST 125 as it was introduced. Go back to 1980. Two small boys (nine and 10) are stood on the east bound GWR platform at Newton Abbot in Devon, waiting for the Paddington train from Penzance. Will we get a sleek futuristic looking 125 or the usual boring diesel loco?

The rails made a clikkety click/clakkety clack or a CAtic/CAtac sound and more besides which sometimes enabled you to know where you were by the sound. You could also estimate speed with your eyes shut. [I could go on ...]

Anyway. 125mph is shit for something that runs on rails. There are quite a few examples of 180mph+ railway systems.

Sadly, 125mph was considered the future.

[lmm]

> I remember the HST 125 as it was introduced. Go back to 1980. Two small boys (nine and 10) are stood on the east bound GWR platform at Newton Abbot in Devon, waiting for the Paddington train from Penzance. Will we get a sleek futuristic looking 125 or the usual boring diesel loco?

The HST/Intercity 125 was diesel too you know.

[gerdesj]

Yes I know it was but it looked like it ran on rocket fuel. It must have had better exhaust vents too because when the old blunt yellow noses turned up they absolutely stank. The 125 smelled quite a bit too but only as being present rather than stuffing black soot up your nose. I was very young then and I would have been repulsed by anything worse.

Fast forward to today and GWR is a customer and the modern version of the 125 (I forget the Class number - I'm just IT) is still running. I've seen them in bits in Laira (Plymuff) and St Phil's Marsh in Bris'l. The power plant is a bit of a whopper. In the sheds there are dispensers for ear plugs, regularly spaced for quick access. You should try to keep a few in a pocket anyway - ideally all of them! They are quite handy when a technician fires up the motor and decides to run it at max chat.

Back in the day I saw the APT doing trial runs. Nowadays I can take a Pendolino ...

[PaulDavisThe1st]

The coaches have a 75mph limit, which I think is the determining limit for the Tornado tours.

[tialaramex]

Even at 75mph this stuff is all unsafe and wouldn't be legal if it wasn't essentially a museum on wheels.

A modern multiple-unit is way stronger and built from things which are designed to bend and then once they exceed maximum load, tear into non-sharp pieces, which means when (not if) something goes badly wrong it's much more survivable for the occupants. At 5mph you aren't too bothered, but older coaches would deconstruct into sharp pieces in even a 50mph collision so the accident ends up more lethal than it would be if you weren't inside a vehicle at all.

Years back a cement mixer truck fell off a bridge onto a moving train. It was a modern design, and so even though obviously such a truck is incredibly heavy it just dented the train and the person directly below the impact inside the train survived (with some injuries). With the older carriages used on a heritage railway it would have demolished the entire carriage and turned everybody inside it into paste, the emergency response would have been recovering remains, not rescuing one guy with head injuries and a bunch of scared but otherwise unharmed passengers.

[AnimalMuppet]

For those of us not fluent in UK slang, what does a "ton" mean in this context?

[implements]

It has British sub-cultural roots:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocker_(subculture)

During the 1950s, they were known as "Ton-Up boys" because doing a ton is English slang for driving at a speed of 100 mph (160 km/h) or over.

[gsnedders]

100mph