[techstrategist]

My recent anecdote. Last month my phone broke: the touch screen would stop responding, but I could still connect a Bluetooth keyboard and headphones. After maybe 5 hard resets in a row, the screen would work again for a few minutes or hours.

After a few days, my head was clearer. I was sleeping better. My relationship felt better than ever, because we wouldn’t both lay next to each other on our phones before sleeping. My time with my kids was more focused, and I was more patient and fun.

In week 2, I commented to my wife that I don’t know what changed, but I felt better than ever. At the time I attributed it to a new therapy lamp.

After a few weeks, I finally acknowledged that due to my responsibilities I do need a working phone 100% of the time and I replaced it with a newer, modestly fancier one. In the month since, nothing else has changed: same therapy light (and now longer daylight hours); no dietary or outside well-being changes or adverse events. But that positivity isn’t there anymore. I don’t think I fully acknowledged that until this moment. And I’m still not sure what do do about it.

[AJJB2]

There will be many answers about a technical solution for this (apps that limit apps, dumb phones, different launchers etc.). None will work.

Train yourself to not phone. Same as you can not consume advertising (cant adblock billboards).

All the technical solutions trim too much away about what makes a smartphone great, or add too much friction, either to configure or to disable again, which you will do anyways. Also these technical solutions are just products again. They exist not to actually work, but to make money. Sometimes both are true, but rarely.

This is a two tier society. Those who can train themselves to do this, who will be able to read books, learn, be present without Soma and ...

the zombies.

[stvswn]

I think different things can work for different people, but here's what has worked for me:

First, what didn't work. I switched to a dumbphone last year with the plans to stick with it for Lent (6.5 weeks). I succeeded but quickly fired up my smartphone, because there were many problems with the plan. I wanted to stop feeling addicted, but I didn't really want to give up on access to Uber, or Venmo, or other things that people expect I can help out with.

So, this year, I did it differently. I keep my smartphone on DND and in my backpack at work or in my desk at home. I took out the SIM and put the SIM in my dumbphone, w/ my dumbphone capable of tethering, so I can (if I need)_ tether my smartphone to my dumbphone. There aren't any social media apps on the smartphone.

If I care enough about Googling something, I just find my laptop. If I need my phone for a task (like Uber), I know where to find it. I am about 2 weeks into it and I still have a bunch of moments where I feel like I should take my phone out of my pocket for no reason at all, but it isn't there, so I don't.

Group texts are the worst part. I would love a dumbphone that can do MMS, but I can't find one. Group texting is pretty essential for practical reasons (groups of parents will use it to organize children's events, for example). I can't retrain everyone else to fit my eccentricity (in their view), so I am left replying back to group MMS with individual replies, it's inconvenient. If I can solve this I will likely never return to everyday smartphone usage.

[wilsonnb3]

> There will be many answers about a technical solution for this (apps that limit apps, dumb phones, different launchers etc.). None will work.

Don't listen to this guy, all of those things work well for a lot of people.

[saiya-jin]

Just guessing but maybe the poster meant that those things don't attack root cause which is sad but simple - screen/media addiction and easiness of obtaining next kick from it, versus actual physical relationships which are much harder to manage and it only gets worse with age. They help you existing around this gaping dark hole but not doing much with it itself, just trying to divert you staring into it. Well guess what, its now part of you, permanently. Admitting that to yourself ain't an easy task on its own, especially if one works with IT or with computers all day.

With that being established, addictions can be tackled in numerous ways, but lets be frank here - our mind, often our greatest asset, is our greatest enemy with addictions. An addict has a permanent crack in persona, something you can put some glue in but things will never be the same as before, you are in recovery for rest of your life.

Since screens and media are everywhere, its pretty hard addiction, similar to say cigarettes in terms of shedding it off. So I think all those tools mentioned work to some extent, for some, but actually getting off the drug shows different, more intense results. The effects are quite subtle unlike say heroin so there isn't societal outcry yet, everybody just complaints about 'kids these days' and moves on.

That's why I consider criminal to let small kids play endlessly with phones/computers or sit in front of tv all day, getting their first addictions from their own parents who are often deep in their own rabbit holes.

[jackson1442]

Yes- I've found that deleting the socials (and the associated accounts!) has worked remarkably well on my phone.

[danShumway]

This is nonsense.

The correct response to advertising sapping your energy is to block ads. The correct response to billboards cluttering up our lives is to collectively ban billboards. "You're either strong enough to resist temptation or you're a 'zombie'" is terrible advice. To the extent that you are able to control your environment, do so. And then use that environmental control to make it easier to exercise self-control in the instances where you can't avoid temptation.

Also understand that willpower is a continuum. If you struggle with alcohol, and you spend all of your time in bars, I promise that you are eventually going to slip up and drink. If you struggle with alcohol and you don't go to bars, then when you're offered a drink you might have the willpower to refuse.

If you're dieting, don't leave food out on your counter. If you're addicted to cigarettes, look into nicotine patches and consider chewing gum. If you're struggling with anger issues, block Reddit. You're not a "zombie" if you take active steps to remove temptations from your life and put yourself in fewer situations where you'll be exposed to addictive behaviors. That is healthy behavior.

----

> Same as you can not consume advertising (cant adblock billboards).

Case in point.

People vastly overestimate how good they are at ignoring advertising. It takes brain power to do that filtering (even if it's happening unconsciously). You can't block every ad, but block every ad that you can block. There's literally no reason not to.

Install an adblocker on your browser/phone. Install SponsorBlock for Youtube. There is no reason at all to artificially make this harder for yourself. It doesn't build up willpower, it just means you'll be inundated with more omnipresent ads that take more willpower to ignore. However strong you think you are, I promise that advertising does probably statistically affect you. Statistically speaking, you don't just ignore it with no consequences. So get rid of as much of it as possible.

As a species, we evolved brains that allowed us to dominate the planet because we had the capability to purposefully reshape the world around us. It's so silly to say that the true human relies on willpower alone. That has literally never been true in the entire evolutionary history of human beings. Imagine saying that it's 'zombie' behavior to use tools and to adapt your environment to make accomplishing tasks easier.

So the point is: install an adblocker. Limit your web-browsing, or block sites outright. If you need to go more extreme, switch off of a smartphone entirely and see if you can get an old-fashioned mobile. Try different strategies and see what works. You are a human being; so heckin act like one and use some tools.

[falseassertions]

Idk, "my phone does not make noise and is permanently in DND" is a statement and people look like I've grown an extra head.

No, actually, nothing my phone is going to tell me is important enough to interrupt what I'm doing now. I'm still addicted enough that I'll look at it in the next hour or two. Repeat calls break through DND, but I have no dependents, my parents are half a globe away.

[jgrahamc]

My relationship felt better than ever, because we wouldn’t both lay next to each other on our phones before sleeping

You could always do what I did and simply ban all electronics from the bedroom. In my bedroom there is a battery powered clock and that's it. No TV, phones or anything else.

[JohnFen]

This. The bed should be for sleeping and sex, nothing else.

[eru]

Eh, breakfast in bed can be nice.

Some people like reading a book in there, too.

And, of course, smaller humans like to jump.

[JohnFen]

Sure, there's lots of nice things to do in bed other than those two. But years ago, I took that advice from my business partner. Doing that improved my sleep (and life) significantly. It may or may not work for you (and you may not need it), but several people I know who started doing it reported that they benefitted greatly.

My hypothesis is because it trains your mind to associate bed with just those activities. Mostly sleep, because you're probably doing a whole lot more of that than sex.

So what ends up happening is that just getting into bed signals your mind that it's time to sleep. When you get in, sleep comes quickly.

I do the other stuff, reading, etc., in a nice, quiet place that isn't in bed. Then I get tired and go to bed, and I'm sleeping soundly very quickly.

[techstrategist]

Thanks, I’ve just moved furniture around to make space a reading corner. I really like 15-60 minutes of reading and reflection in the evening, and it seems like a good idea to move it out of the bed.

[sn41]

It's a delight to see smaller humans feel so happy around the bed!

[techstrategist]

Wrestling toddlers and family story time are both essential activities!

[layer8]

Larger humans too, but you’d need a sturdier bed and a higher ceiling. ;)

[techstrategist]

Even just switching from phone at night to tablet or e-reader was a massive improvement. Something about the phone makes it much more compelling and harder to put down. Never had a bedroom tv and definitely won’t. I’d prefer that my wife also kept her phone out, but she’s an adult and I’m not going to ban it.

[RMPR]

Same, but I do allow ebook readers obviously not connected to Internet.

[jgrahamc]

Yeah. I am slightly incorrect. My wife has an ebook reader but it's not connected to the Internet. I just have a stack of paper books.

[ace32229]

Sounds like you simply need a communication device - not necessarily a "phone" with all that encompasses nowadays. One option would be to disable all apps/functions that aren't calling or texting (maybe emailing too depending on your usage). Another option would be getting a non-smart phone to enforce the above.

[techstrategist]

Vouched to bring this comment back to life. Probably flagged because it’s an “actually your problem is very simple” response, but there’s truth to it.

My pocket device needs these features: (a touch short of absolute requirements, but who’s counting)

a nice camera; cellular connection for data, sms, and voice calls; receive notifications from various apps (email, school, daycare, whatsapp), actually open the apps that don’t put all the relevant information in the notification; and play spotify and libro.fm with a speaker and bluetooth headphones.

While reducing excess usage in ways that are not too complex to configure, and also not too easy to disable.

Maybe I could get close with a wifi camera + a cellular watch?

[seelmobile]

I had a similar experience as you but ended up reducing my requirements and getting a dumb phone (Jethro SC490) with no direct internet access and the ability to set up a hotspot.

If I need anything besides SMS/MMS and voice calls I turn on a hotspot and take out my laptop. I'm "offline" by default but still reachable in emergencies.

I do cheat on the camera portion by using my partner's smartphone for pictures where I care about the quality.

You lose conveniences but the tradeoff was very worth it in my case. I have no plans of going back to a smartphone.

[krrrh]

What you’re asking for has been available for years. The answer is to swallow your pride and have a friend set up parental controls on your phone and safeguard the password from you.

[techstrategist]

Interesting option thanks for mentioning it.

[krrrh]

No worries, I’ve made this suggestion to a lot of people but no one has followed through with it afaik, not even me.

I do find that https://freedom.to/ is one of the few things that has worked for me. It’s more difficult to bypass than ScreenTime, and syncing blocklists with the laptop during the day is great for overcoming procrastination. It works through a VPN profile (though not an actual VPN), so it also blocks apps.

I‘ve used it with schedules that go from 05:00 to 19:00 and it’s just such an eye opener when even a week after implementation I still open safari and reflexively type the urls for Twitter, hacker news, and Reddit even though they’ve only produced blank pages for days. Restricting it to the evening and going a couple of hours longer than the workday means I can still enjoy some mindless surfing but if I get busy doing something else I’m less likely to get sucked in. I also really like some of the suggestions here to restrict time wasters from the phone completely and only do social media stuff on the desktop. The extra effort for me to go to the office would mean that I’m more likely to use the time doing something else.

[dorchadas]

I'm roughly the same. All I want is a phone that lets me play Spotify, tracks my steps during the day/gps on runs, and lets me use messaging apps (Telegram, WhatsApp) along with SMS and call. Really need nothing else on it (and am starting to get that way). Maybe a smart watch is the best option, but I really don't like the design of most of them, and prefer my old school kinetic powered watch.

[suoduandao2]

There are apps that change a smartphone screen to be greyscale only. Probably not as good as not having one but it might reduce the addictive quality substantially, worth a try in any case

[mtklein]

If you're an Apple user, it's built-in, and I've found it ergonomic to assign its toggle to a triple-tap on your phone's back and/or laptop power button.

Those triple-taps are effortlessly quick and rarely if ever misfire, making it totally reasonable to stay in greyscale by default and reengage color selectively when you're looking at something that merits it (film, family, friends, a Wordle scorecard...)

[RMPR]

On Android it's also built-in, iirc it's called Bedtime mode.

[npteljes]

Android phones can do that in Developer mode.

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/74887/force-andr... (Old answer, but the placement is similar)

[NoGravitas]

On LineageOS, it's been a regular setting, with a quick tile, for quite a while. And in recent mainstream Androids (12, I think?) it's available under bedtime settings or something.

[npteljes]

You're right! My /e/ OS has it as "Reading mode" in the quick tiles. And has a Reading mode toggle in the LiveDisplay settings.

[techstrategist]

That’s a great idea. I tried a lot of similar techniques years ago without much success, but I should try again since I’ve been diagnosed and treated for ADHD since then.

[chuankl]

On my Pixel 6a running stock Android 13, the setting is under

Accessibility > Color and motion > Color correction > Grayscale.

No separate app and no development mode needed.

[DeathArrow]

>And I’m still not sure what do do about it.

Maybe break the touch screen again?

[techstrategist]

I can always switch back to the old phone, if I can figure out how to ensure I can always answer calls and read notifications. I’d miss the upgraded camera but maybe it’s worth it.

[colinflane]

Exact same thing happened to me when we traveled to Costa Rica for a wedding and I unwittingly waded into the Pacific with my waterproof-but-cracked Galaxy in the pocket of my swimming trunks. Came out in death throes, scanning pink lines and emitting horrible noises. Bliss!

Returned to the States and decided to upgrade to an iPhone, but the wait times for the 14 was a couple weeks. Exceptionally lovely time. Go for a walk after wrapping up work -- and that's all it is!

[mixto]

Recently I uninstalled most of the applications on my phone, including the browser, email, youtube, and any other form of social media. Now I mostly use my phone for podcasts, texting, phone calls, maps, and as calendar. It's really great!

It's worth a try I think. You can always reinstall those apps if you change your mind.

[uoaei]

It sounds like better sleep is probably a lot of the explanation of the improvement, too.

[mixmastamyk]

Our internet shuts off at 11pm at the router so no way to modify that for hours.

[AussieWog93]

>And I’m still not sure what do do about it.

Start by disabling the browser. If you have to make a conscious decision every time you check Reddit, you'll find that you stop doing it so much.

[shepherdjerred]

I wish I could get rid of my phone, but I can't. it's too useful. What I did to use my phone less is:

* Set the screen to grayscale. I have a shortcut setup to toggle grayscale/color, so that I can view things like images/videos the friends send me, but I go straight back to grayscale afterwards. I found that I spent a lot less time on apps like Instagram when they're in grayscale.

* Set up time limits for apps. Android and iOS both have features for this. In addition, set it up so that you need to enter a PIN to go over the limit. This worked well for me for a bit, but I quickly became reflexive in going over the limit (even with a PIN!). Adding a little bit of friction to going over the limit gives me the chance to think and consider if I really want to be using my phone. So, don't memorize the PIN that you set -- write it down on a piece of paper and stick it between the back of your phone and your phone case. This adds some friction so that you don't reflexively go over your time limits -- if you _really_ need to use some app you can.

* Delete any apps that you don't actually need. For me, I deleted all social media apps, and basically anything I could access on my desktop/laptop. Go further, and really question what apps you need. Do you really need easy access to your email, or Discord, or Reddit, on your phone?

* If you're able to stomach it, delete your social media accounts. I did this last year, and I don't miss anything. I keep in touch with friends by texting them, asking to setup phone calls, and so on. I did like being able to see what's going on in my friend's lives, but I don't think it was worth the negative effects. If you want to keep in touch with people, you can do so without social media. Send postcards or letters to friends. Actually seek out talking to the people that you want to hear from, rather than passively posting/reading online.

* Consider your consumption of news like Reddit, Hacker News, news sites, and so on. I thought I needed Reddit. I thought that it added positive value. I spent a _lot_ of time on Reddit in college. But, after I graduated I slowly weaned myself off. Now I realize that it did have _some_ marginal benefit in keeping up with the news, but I think there was a giant negative impact. Reddit can be a very negative and cynical place; I think it can really influence your thoughts in ways you don't realize. I also saw that there are other ways to keep up with current (I now read the New York Times instead).

* Regarding Hacker News, take advantage of the noprocrast features. Also, I use hckr news [0] so that it only shows me the top 10 articles each day. This means I spend less time on here, but I still get the majority of the benefit of reading Hacker News.

Of course, you don't have to apply all of the above at once! According to iOS Screen Time, over the course of maybe ~2 years I went from using my phone 2.5-3 hours per day, to ~15 minutes per day now.

Hope that you find something that works for you! You (or anyone else!) feel free to email me if you need any advice. I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm so happy that I no longer reflexively pull out my phone.

* [0]: https://hckrnews.com/

[danShumway]

A lot of this is individual, and different strategies work for different people. I tried the grayscale trick and found that it weirdly enough increased my phone usage. Could be a long conversation potentially. Setting focus mode/time limits helped more.

But, it's good to experiment with this stuff, and this is a good list of things to experiment with.

In particular I want to throw out another vote for:

> * Delete any apps that you don't actually need. For me, I deleted all social media apps, and basically anything I could access on my desktop/laptop. Go further, and really question what apps you need. Do you really need easy access to your email, or Discord, or Reddit, on your phone?

This is probably the first thing I recommend to people after "install an adblocker."

It is a really big deal if the only notifications that happen on your phone are actually important ones, and deleting messengers is a big part of that. My phone is an important part of my organizational life for calendar events, notes, alarms, etc... When it dings, I need it to ding specifically because there's an alarm or reminder or important email that's come through, not because somebody DMed me on Discord.

Again, everyone is individual, but I think more people should experiment with this as a first step. Most of that communication is asynchronous, you should be able to walk away from it and get some relief from it, and having it only a desktop computer allows for that more easily. And it's not just notifications, it's the blue dot that shows up next to the app, is being able to instinctively check it without thinking. Restricting that can be very helpful.

I've had a policy at every job I've worked at that I do not have Slack on any of my home devices.

There are privacy/separation reasons for that as well, but attention is a part of it. Even if I could have Slack on my phone with no privacy risks and it wasn't a work-related app on a personal device, I still need that separation from my job when I disconnect at the end of the day. If it's an emergency, people in the company have my email and phone number. But I don't need to be getting dings on my phone because someone posted a joke into the "random" channel. My phone dings when it's important.

Having more dedicated/purposeful devices can be a big deal. Of course, it's a little privileged for me to be able to make that choice, not everyone has multiple devices that they can turn into more specialized machines. But if you have that privilege, consider taking advantage of it.

[shepherdjerred]

Great ideas about the adblocker, and I totally forgot about notifications!

I've turned off all notifications on my phone, aside from texts and phone calls. It really helps. I don't have my calendar on my phone. I bought and use an nice, leather bound calendar/planner now (aside from work stuff, which I have a calendar on my laptop). It works really well for me.

For things like email and Discord, I just check them on my computer. If there's some reason I need Slack/Discord on my phone, like I'm meeting up with friends who have a Discord group chat, or I'm at a conference with co-workers that communicate with Slack -- I'll download and use the app for the period of time I need it, and then delete it ASAP.

I've told my friends if they need me to reply instantly, they should text me. People often look at me funny/ask why I don't have Discord on my phone. Most will understand when I answer that I don't want to be distracted.

---

A lot of this is a huge mindset shift. I'm 25 but I have (some of) the habits of a 70 year old. I think it's worthwhile to use technology (some things just require a smartphone), but you can get 90% of the benefit while avoiding most/all of the downsides if you take a step back and think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.