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by wolfium3 1210 days ago
Isn't that a good thing though? I.e. promote the production of more training material for the immune system for longer?

(Please correct me in the thread if my understanding is incorrect)

2 comments

The more worrying thing here is the "circulate" part. Meaning that the lipid packages containing the mRNA sequences are traveling throughout the body, instead of staying at the injection site.
> instead of staying at the injection site.

We've known that forever. There's been studies done with luciferase to see where the mRNA triggers protein production in small animals.

We know that a big portion of the activity is in the liver, distant from the IM injection site (a lot of the activity is at the site, too).

e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/

"When mRNA-LNPs were injected intramuscularly and intratracheally, similar to intravenous and intraperitoneal deliveries, a large portion of the luciferase activity was detectable in the liver, demonstrating systemic spread of the nanoparticles."

Yes, and people like Bret Weinstein say this is a massive problem and why there’s heart inflammation, if the mrna enters heart muscle your immune system might well attack it, the problem is - heart muscle does not get remade.
The problem with this is that there's simpler explanations. Myocarditis is more frequent with C19 infection than vaccination, so it seems spike protein circulating is "enough".

Also this study didn't find significant uptake of mRNA in the heart (though it did find notable uptake in the lungs).

The Mycocarditis line is not true - it highly depends on gender and age. Repeating that its more frequent for infection outright is wrong, it is only in certain sub-populations (female, older).
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....

See tables 3 and 4.

Moderna does seem to have an effect in the direction you name; the Pfizer vaccine seems to have a lower risk than infection in all categories. Overall, the myocarditis risk is lower with vaccination than infection with both Moderna and Pfizer, but it may not be in some subpopulations with Moderna.

Bret Weinstein is an obvious grifter
Can you explain why circulation is not ok? Are vaccines designed to not circulate in blood streams?
The mRNA-based covid shots (and the adenovirus-vector covid shots) are a wee bit different in how they operate than pre-covid vaccines.

Modified covid spike proteins are produced by host (i.e. a vaccinee's) cells. The spike proteins are anchored within the cells but "poke out" through the cellular membranes so they're able to elicit an immune system response.

The cells expressing the mod-spike are ultimately destroyed. If you review pop-sci / marketing materials produced by Pfizer and Moderna and government agencies and non-profits who promoted the shots, the fate of these cells will be glossed over, but that's what happens.

This is why it was important that the contents of the jabs stayed in the muscle tissue near the injection site and the process of translating all of the vax mRNA into mod-spike be rapid. If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed and, if enough cells in the wrong place at the wrong time were destroyed this way, bad things could happen. Observing vax mRNA persisting or existing weeks and weeks post-administration is not good for this (and additional) reasons.

Now I'm curious, if you get infected by the virus itself, does the same thing not happen?
You speak really confidently on this topic, can you share your background with regards to immunology/bioscience?
Everything he's saying is common knowledge to anyone who has researched this topic. Having a background in bioscience would not help and most likely hurt, because people within those fields are highly incentivized to suppress bad news about their prior actions.
To quote GP

> If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed…

This is something that you would consider to be common knowledge?

How do you supposed "normal" vaccines work?
> not circulate in blood streams?

when you do an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection you don't end up in the blood stream typically

Is that true? I remember my daughter had a severe bacterial infection and they couldn't get an IV in her so they did an intramuscular injection of antibiotics.
It's probably neither a good or a bad thing, it's just a "we found something that may guide our future understanding of how mRNA vaccines work". Sounds like basic research that has no direct implications.
The surprise is why this was never tested before by Pfizer or Moderna themselves. For all drugs you typically evaluate how they are metabolized in the body, and this has never been published before. Very sloppy standards.
You are likely looking for the research done on flu vaccinations.

From 2017 https://www.flagshippioneering.com/press/moderna-announces-p...

And also from 2017 Safety, Reactogenicity, and Immunogenicity of mRNA-1653 in Healthy Adults https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03392389

The research and testing for mRNA had been a decade in the making and was already present in 2019.

You need to do that for every new drug marketed, you can't just refer to prior art.