[satvikpendem]

From what I've heard, China also used to be like that, sending out cheap samples that didn't meet the specification, and the manufacturers there would tell you that they'd do it correctly next time, just for the same thing to happen again. But eventually they were able to do a good job. Give it time, Indian manufacturing is simply not as advanced as China's right now but it will be if enough investment is made.

[kalesh]

It's not about being advanced. It's about keeping promises & being honest. It might take a whole generation to fix this.

[SilverBirch]

Overpromising and underdelivering is what you do when you can't meet the expectations and you need to try and get the business anyway. What's the alternative? Honestly promise a product no one wants to buy. Once you've manufactured a billion widgets you no longer need to overpromise and underdeliver. It's very similar to the silicon valley "fake it till you make it" attitude.

[grantsch]

Yeah or maybe you could just be honest and not cheat. That's a good option too.

[serf]

as someone who has ran a machine shop, that's lovely -- but rare.

95 percent of the shops I have known in the past or worked with currently would sell you their ability to do something while simultaneous upgrading their equipment to match the moment the PO is signed off on.

If fab/machine/mfg shops didn't take on work that was beyond their capability then the smaller groups would starve to death immediately, being unable to use the larger contracts to facilitate upgrades.

The trick is to find a shop operator that is aware of their rate of capability upgrade and turn-around time, that way the delivery dates aren't inaccurate even if the shop capabilities need to be 'tuned' (new machines bought).

[grantsch]

Yes I am aware that lying and cheating is very common behavior

In those lines of work where it's especially common, ethical behavior can be a competitive advantage

[FpUser]

I've been burned by overpromising machine shops in Canada. They have eventually delivered but with absolutely unacceptable delays. How does one year sound?

[ElevenLathe]

I'm not sure it really is. Dial your time machine back to Victorian London and I bet you would find lots of similarly-run factories. As another poster pointed out, the choices are essentially 1) be honest that you are kind of a bad factory, and can't really produce anything that people want or 2) pretend that you are a great factory, get some business, learn and iterate. Eventually you can honestly promise high quality, but you have to survive that far first.

[viraptor]

> Dial your time machine back to Victorian London

You may want to check with Ea-Nasir about his copper ingots... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir

[TheCoelacanth]

I don't think it was intended to be the earliest example, just one that is more relatable to westerners.

[grantsch]

Yes you are correct that lying and cheating does have a long history

[voakbasda]

When your competition is willing to lie and cheat, honesty is a liability that will result in bankruptcy. Worse, this attitude is endemic in all business sectors where I have worked, and I would be shocked to find a sector where this is not true.

[grantsch]

Yes that is 1 way to justify compromising your ethics

[satvikpendem]

That's part of what I mean by advanced as well. Yes, it might well take a generation, it took China a generation too.

[szundi]

Parent commenter is right, China was like that. The difference is in the root cause: attitude. Whole world is full of ridiculously hard working Chinese people rising up from being an immigrants with nothing and running like the half economies of countries after 50 years.

[yumraj]

And Indian immigrants do that too and have risen to be CEOs and Vice Presidents and Prime Ministers and Ministers and in other leadership positions in other countries.

What’s your point?

No idea where “half the economies of countries” is coming from? Citation needed..

[MPlus88]

The root cause is more than attitude.

[perfecthjrjth]

This remark applies to all IT outsourcing companies: more billable hours. Love to see how a Chinese IT outsourcing company fares in contrast with TCS, Wipro, Infosys of the world.

[starky]

It is a lot about building relationships with vendors in China. I've dealt with the same issues you describe here with most of my Chinese vendors, usually putting up with them because they were cheap. Those we stuck with are now our best vendors because they realize that it is just easiest to do it properly the first time. I have one vendor that causes our sourcing team to tremble in fear about because of how risky they appear to be, but nobody can beat their prices, service, and quality to us.

[brmgb]

The issue of India has always been that it has some serious cultural obstacles to overcome and very little interest in doing so.

Society remains deeply segregated with the caste system being a drag on everything. Religious intelorance is very high and the policians in power seem all to happy to stroke the flame of islamophabia rather than work on solving the actual country problems. Corruption is a reality everywhere and at all levels.

[smoldesu]

China's government effectively owns all of those factories. When something goes wrong, they put their hands directly into the machine to fix it.

Hopefully India's government doesn't follow in their footsteps, Apple's Chinese manufacturers have a spotty track record vis-a-vis exploiting executive power.

[hangonhn]

It's actually the opposite that's true. It was when the Chinese government let go of economy that China got good at manufacturing. I do wonder if India's legacy of heavy state intervention might be the cause of the current issue (from the little that I know about India) and if they would follow a similar trajectory as more companies start to compete. I don't know enough about India to comment on the latter part but my family is ethnic Chinese and we own factories in China. State intervention is definitely not why manufacturing improved in China. There is fierce competition among the companies. Talented managers and leaders are lured away with big salary increases or start their own companies, etc. Ironically, in the beginning a lot of managers who worked for state companies were lured away by enterprising business people to get their factories started. Those same managers would quickly ram up and become more productive once they were motivated with bonuses and freedom to manage, etc.

I would not be too negative on India. I don't see a reason why things won't improve with enough time and motivation.

[rmah]

Having dealt with multiple electronics component and assembly factories in china... um, no. The government does not "effectively own" all those factories. And no, they do not step in to fix problems.

[FpUser]

So they're fixing gazillion of individual shops that do the business? I think you give way too much credit.