[mistermann]

"good faith" - it is a highly subjective term, but it is typically used as if it is objective.

There is a whole class of reality distorting phrases like this in Western culture[1], this sort of thing has always been with us but seems to have taken on much more causal significance with the rise of the internet.

[1] Possibly related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

[the_af]

Instead of replying indirectly, please address what I'm saying: what's the actual "reality distortion meme" I'm deploying here? Be upfront and accuse me of something I can defend myself of.

> "good faith" - it is a highly subjective term

HN defines is pretty clearly (note there's more, I'm just quoting some parts):

> "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes."

So snark replies are out.

> "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names."

So calling someone an Iranian secret police agent is out.

> "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

So instead of cross-examining me or trying to "catch me" somehow, address the fact I'm calling for nonviolence and restraint, and that I claim recent experience in the Middle East shows that regional collapse leads to the rise of fundamentalist groups and a general rise of unchecked violence. Assume good faith; assume I want the common good. If I made a mistake, reason with me. If you are an Iranian, don't withhold this information from me until we are 10-levels into a nested discussion.

> "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes."

Self-explanatory. I'd say name-dropping "reality distortion memes" is one such internet trope (one, to be frank, I still don't understand because you haven't explained).

Need I go on?

[mistermann]

> Instead of replying indirectly, please address what I'm saying: what's the actual "reality distortion meme" I'm deploying here? Be upfront and accuse me of something I can defend myself of.

"good faith" - it is a highly subjective term, but it is typically used as if it is objective.

I will copy/paste this every time you represent that I have not disclosed the term - to others that sort of thing might be annoying, but to me it is fun!

>> "good faith" - it is a highly subjective term

> HN defines is pretty clearly (note there's more, I'm just quoting some parts):

>>>>> "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes."

> So snark replies are out.

a) People break the guidelines all the time.

b) "Be kind. Don't be snarky...." - this text stands on its own in the guidelines and is not given as a definition of good faith.

c) The only reference to "good faith" in the guidelines is this (which you are in violation of, as am I (and I have strong ideological reasons for my non-compliance)): "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

d) There is an important distinction between the definition of a term, and each individual's classification of behavior as being a valid instance of the term.

> So calling someone an Iranian secret police agent is out.

Agreed, thus I have not done that.

> So instead of cross-examining me or trying to "catch me" somehow, address the fact I'm calling for nonviolence and restraint, and that I claim recent experience in the Middle East shows that regional collapse leads to the rise of fundamentalist groups and a general rise of unchecked violence.

I acknowledge that you believe this, and that there is surely some truth to it.

I will not refrain from criticizing your claims though.

> Assume good faith; assume I want the common good. If I made a mistake, reason with me.

I will assume what I want to, or nothing at all.

My reasoning is above.

> If you are an Iranian, don't withhold this information from me until we are 10-levels into a nested discussion.

I am not Iranian.

> Self-explanatory. I'd say name-dropping "reality distortion memes" is one such internet trope (one, to be frank, I still don't understand because you haven't explained).

"Good/bad faith" is also a (much more) popular trope, one that I believe is also much more dangerous.

> Need I go on?

No, but you are more than welcome to.