[the_af]

> Iran is not Syria, there’s a flourishing academic population, the fundamentalists are the ones in power

What do you think will happen if the Iranian state collapses? What happened the last time the Iranian state collapsed?

Something to ponder before wishing for another collapse.

[pinkbeanz]

I’m an Iranian, I’m allowed to wish for the collapse of that awful regime. You can save your sanctimony for someone else.

[mighty_donkey]

Regime rapes and murders women and children, imprisons thousands, mismanages the economy to the point where millions live in poverty and everyone's life savings are slashed in half , environmental degradation to the point where lakes are drying up, state-sponsored terrorism etc....but hey guys have you "pondered" how bad state collapse would be?

[erenyeager]

Method matters. If people overthrow the government in violence, then it is just another turn of the revolving door of violence. What will happen to the former partisans and supporters of the old guard? Not to mention, if a movement without sufficient ability to take power rises and fails, the loss in life and chaos in society will be far worse than the status quo.

Iran is not starvation level desperate, nor people trapped under earthquake rubble desperate, to my knowledge, so I do not expect a successful popular movement without buy in from the elite and military classes of the country.

[actionfromafar]

So, what method do you propose? Harsh language?

[erenyeager]

Patience

[kaba0]

Yeah, I’m sure if we would have just waited a few more years, slavery would have also ended, we would have ended child labor, women would be allowed to vote… come on, this is just utterly dumbly naive.

[actionfromafar]

Wow... I'm not sure what to say. How many decades more, for instance?

[the_af]

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please assume good faith and don't incite flamewars.

When I'm arguing against wishing for collapse "from the comfort of our countries", where do you read that I'm talking to Iranians? I'm talking to HN commenters who are not from Iran. I'm obviously not arguing with pinkbeanz since he/she is from Iran.

Try arguing in good faith, unless you want this to devolve into a flamewar. You already tried something like this in another comment: please stop.

[rolenthedeep]

Reframing your argument to avoid accepting new information is not arguing in "good faith"

You're in the wrong here, it's time to walk away.

[the_af]

What new information?

> You're in the wrong here, it's time to walk away.

Nope. The people who are in the wrong are the coach warriors who want to see collapse but aren't unwilling to go fight for it, making arguments from the safety of their countries.

[Zetobal]

Your weapon of choice also seems to be the keyboard.

[aliqot]

> Please assume good faith and don't incite flamewars.

please don't leap behind this when someone engages your comment in an equal tone. mom has nothing to do with this conversation.

[the_af]

What was my tone? "Do not so recklessly wish collapse onto others", is that the tone you object to? I would have thought everyone agreed on this.

[wizofaus]

It reads to me like others are talking regime collapse, whereas you're concerned about societal-level collapse. I'd agree few with good intentions would wish for the latter. Regimes can and do collapse without it meaning anything like the level of nationwide chaos and misery you seem to have in mind.

[mistermann]

> Try arguing in good faith

Dropping the use of reality distorting memes like this would be a good place to start, assuming you're actually serious.

[the_af]

What's the reality distortion meme?

[mistermann]

"good faith" - it is a highly subjective term, but it is typically used as if it is objective.

There is a whole class of reality distorting phrases like this in Western culture[1], this sort of thing has always been with us but seems to have taken on much more causal significance with the rise of the internet.

[1] Possibly related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

[SuoDuanDao]

>please assume good faith ... >Try arguing in good faith

[samtho]

This reads like a low-key, state-sponsored bot post on Twitter: spreading FUD under the guise of being “safe.” Iranians need to take back their country, they are already not safe.

At this point, the only transfer of power that will happen will be due to a hostile civilian takeover. The current regime will not abdicate and any foreign military coup will likely not be tolerated by the people.

A revolution will serve as a cautionary tale to future governments who attempt to push fundamentalism as law.

[the_af]

> This reads like a low-key, state-sponsored bot post on Twitter

Let me call out your idiocy: please review my comments history.

This is the dumbest, stupidest thing you can argue about my post. It's something that can be refuted with a 5-minute perusal of my comments history.

Please try to do better.

[icare_1er]

One is right to be careful about another state collapsing, after the failures of Irak, Syria, Lybia, etc....

However, I also think the Iranian situation (and unlike many commenters I know Iran, have been there many times, and more) is different because there already is a quite successful diaspora of Iranians ready to take back control of the country.

Iranians have managed to somehow maintain a decent amount of infrastructure despite the sanctions and the general adversity (they did not become Cuba). There is an inherent vitality within the Iranian people which makes me very confident that once the islamists are rooted out, their country will spring back to being a working economy thanks to its intellectually very capable people and its diaspora.

[the_af]

Thanks for the measured reply.

I hope what you're saying actually results in a transition with minimal violence. I would also like minimum interference from foreign powers, the US included.