[bubblematrix]

Independent plumbers/local plumbing businesses can easily earn $1,000/day with 2-3 service calls. Not sure how universal healthcare, PTO, immigration, and more pay have to do with this.

Edit: Thank you for all the downvotes for me calling out the weird correlation between tech benefits/politics and plumber skill-shortage + high-reward wages. Your wokeism will forever benefit society.

[Adraghast]

The median annual wage for electricians was $60,040 in May 2021. The median wage is the wage at which half the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $37,020, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $99,800.

[bluedino]

Get a job with the local power company, or one of their contractors. You will have to work in bad weather, after storms, and travel a little bit.

The average salary for a journeyman lineman in Michigan is $161,000 per year

[stonogo]

No it isn't. You cherry-picked that single report, which was based on 76 turbotax returns. I suspect their data is wrong or corrupted, because making $160k as a journeyman lineman is only achievable with a decade experience and a truckload of overtime. Look around a bit further, or talk to actual linemen or unions, and you'll see the average salary for a lineman is about a hundred thousand dollars a year less than that.

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/journeyman-... https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/DTE-Energy-Journeyman-Linem... https://www.linemancentral.com/states/michigan

[bluedino]

Read some Reddit posts where people ask linemen how much they make. People reply with over $200k.

[stonogo]

I don't feel the need to read Reddit, since I worked as a lineman for several years. It's possible to make bank in all kinds of trades, but that is absolutely not the norm, or even the average.

[Tokkemon]

Yeah, because that's more reliable data.

[AngryData]

Tradesmen are some of the first people to inflate their actual wage because otherwise they not only have a "lower class" career, but they are also not doing as well as everyone else and it makes them feel like shit.

I would not accept their personal anecdotes over documented tax returns.

[hotpotamus]

Have you considered that they may not be telling the truth?

[bluedino]

I know a lot of linemen and they do pretty well. $70k would be zero overtime.

Do you think they don't earn 30-40 per hour and have the ability to make tons of overtime?

The power company pays office workers time and a half to do "line watch" where they just park by a downed power line with a light on their roof until a crew shows up to fix it.

[dinkumthinkum]

I dislike wokeism as much as anyone else but what does this have to do with being some. I think the idea that plumbers make $1,000 a day as if that translates to their salary is a bit silly. How many plumbers fob you out see riding around in Lambos or do you think they are just too modest for that?

[bubblematrix]

Your mistake is the assumption I'm translating it into salary. That $1,000 a day can go towards additional employees (coverage area) and marketing.

[teawrecks]

What do independent plumbers have to do for healthcare for them and their families? Is there a better option than COBRA? I honestly don't know.

[ericbarrett]

I had to dip into this for a few years. In the U.S., an ACA ("Obamacare") plan is $500-$2000 a month, depending on the state, with extra assistance for low incomes. There are bronze, silver, and gold plans with higher tiers decreasing copays and annual out-of-pocket maximums but significantly bumping the monthly dues. Private insurance also exists but almost universally has inferior terms (payout caps, gaps in coverage, weasel wording, etc.).

In my experience, for a typical ACA bronze plan, the annual maximum out-of-pocket payout is roughly $20,000, and the monthly dues are about $700, meaning worst case you're looking at ~$30,000 out pocket for a year. Add about 50% if you have children. Sadly, none of this is tax-deductible as far as I can tell.

Another issue with ACA marketplaces that I found was they churn a lot; every year when you have to renew coverage you can have an entirely different set of providers and plans. The constant enrollment and transfer paperwork becomes non-trivial, even without trying to qualify for an income-based discount.

[lotsofpulp]

>the annual maximum out-of-pocket payout is roughly $20,000,

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...

The annual max family out of pocket is legally capped at $18,200, but most plans will be less than that.

>Another issue with ACA marketplaces that I found was they churn a lot; every year when you have to renew coverage you can have an entirely different set of providers and plans.

This is not my experience, I have been able to purchase the same BCBS health plan from the same insurer for many years.

In NJ, I would budget $30k per year for premiums for a gold level plan for a family of 4, assuming you are not getting any premium tax credits. Of course, out of pocket maximum is up to another $18k.

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

>Sadly, none of this is tax-deductible as far as I can tell.

It should be tax deductible if you are self employed:

https://www.healthinsurance.org/obamacare/self-employed-heal...

And if you are working for a small business that does not offer a group health plan, you should be able to get premiums reimbursed from employer with pre tax income:

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/qsehra/

[dml2135]

If you have a high-deductible health plan, generally you can open an HSA account, which does allow for medical expenses to effectively be tax-deductible.

There are a bunch of restrictions and loopholes though. I once opened an HSA and then actually had to close it because it turned out my insurance plan had *too* high of a deductible to be eligible, go figure.

[dangerwill]

COBRA is for temporarily keeping employer provided healthcare after leaving a company and is basically a non-option except as a short term bridge to a new employer provided plan. I believe independent workers generally go to the health care exchanges and buy a private health care plan. Rates vary wildly by state, coverage details, and your age but I've recently looked in Washington state for midrange (silver) plans and they are around ~$400 a month (with no dependents).

[r00fus]

I know people who surfed the COBRA wave - ie, joined full-time for a company for a month every year or two to keep COBRA going and then going back to contract work in the interim.

[convolvatron]

I just left FTE and took COBRA and they are giving me 18mo!

[yamtaddle]

"Giving".

Normally it just means you get to pay the full cost of your health plan, which is often double or more what you were paying as an employee. It's just so you're not immediately ineligible for the employer's group.

Unless yours is also paying the premium those 18 months, which I've never heard of but I suppose is possible.

[Eumenes]

You can find a bronze plan on the healthcare market place for < $300/month. I'm self employed, paying around that for an HSA eligible plan, and haven't seen a doctor in 5+ year. Mostly keep it for the HSA account/investing, or I'd forgo it. If your spouse has a FT/W2 job, they'd likely get solid health insurance to cover the family.

[ericbarrett]

This varies wildly by state. Where I live the cheapest bronze plan in 2022 was $700/mo with no dependents.

[lotsofpulp]

It varies more by age. A bronze plan under $300 per month is only possible for someone in their 20s.

You can see premiums for 2023 for NJ here for all ages and plans, and adjust up or down 20% for other states.:

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

[r00fus]

I mean Obamacare exchanges exist but (as the insurance industry wants) it mostly sucks in terms of costs/coverage. COBRA is still better because you get tied to your former employer's risk pool even though you pay employer share of healthcare costs.

[lotsofpulp]

You can buy the same health insurance on healthcare.gov that businesses buy from the same insurance companies.

They even have metal levels so you know you are getting the same actuarial value. A silver BCBS plan from an employer is basically the same coverage as a silver BCBS plan from healthcare.gov.

[yamtaddle]

False in my state, at least. And ours is on the healthcare.gov fallback (the state didn't set up an exchange).

The state of things here:

1) Most insurers don't offer anything on healthcare.gov. Most years, there are two providers on there, though sometimes one will drop off and another will come in, so it does vary a little year-to-year.

2) Zero insurers here offer individual plans outside hc.gov, so if they're not on there—and most aren't—you can't get one. Seriously. Ask them, ask insurance brokers: "nope, no insurers offer individual plans in this state anymore—if it's not on hc.gov, it doesn't exist"

3) The networks for the hc.gov plans usually suck compared to the ones available to businesses. This may not be captured in the "actuarial value".

4) I've also never seen an employer mention which metal-level their plans is so you can compare them, but maybe they can find out if you ask. I know for a fact the top-level employer plans cost quite a bit more than the best-available plans on hc.gov (and they're waaaaaaay better)

You mention BCBS. They do operate in this state. They are not on hc.gov (not the version we see, anyway) and will not sell you an individual plan outside of it, either.

[lotsofpulp]

That sucks, I have not experienced that in NY/NJ/CA/WA.

NJ even has a public document listing all the insurance prices, and they matched the amount quoted to me by the insurance agent for my business.

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

BCBS is also a network, not the insurance company. So you never buy insurance from BCBS, but rather whichever insurance company has chosen to be a franchise, such as Regence, Horizon NJ, Independence, Elevance, etc.

[yamtaddle]

Yeah, my impression is that healthcare exchange plans are much better and cheaper in blue states than out here in flyover country. It's a shitshow out here. A wallet-emptying shitshow. Not exactly worse than before—at least stuff like pre-existing condition exclusions are gone—but definitely not good either.

[artemonster]

The downvotes should be a hint for you to re-evaluate your position and maybe look for logical errors. Instead you've doubled down and threw in some ridiculous piece of your worldview (that thing with wokeism) to shift the blame away from yourself to everyone around you.

[bubblematrix]

Well here's some logic for you. Before entering enterprise tech (8+ years), I managed a finish-construction company warehouse. Being good at web development, I helped a buddy start a locksmith company and have a small portion of equity for doing all his marketing/SEO (since 2012). He makes close to $1mil/year and lives out of a warehouse... Spare me with your "ridiculous piece of your worldview"...

[standardUser]

How are you "not sure" what healthcare and independent workers have to do with each other?