[colossal]

A 2.5mg/kg dose would be (extrapolating linearly) like a ~200mg dose for a 65-70kg adult. That's wayyy more that most casual users take, probably enough to induce a "k-hole" in the majority of people. Would be a curious to see results for a more realistic dose. Maybe extrapolating linearly is not appropriate however, not a pharmacology expert...

[tbalsam]

Don't forget your dose conversion curves across species, girl. ;PPPP

Also! You may find this Twitter very interesting as well.... ;P https://mobile.twitter.com/justsaysinrats?lang=en

(And good point on the K-hole, in completely naive users my understanding is that this would likely induce a K-hole under IV conditions, but also we have to remember there are dose curve spike flattenings that happen depending upon dosing delivery methods due to transporter saturation, for example, etc as well....)

[tasty_freeze]

My wife takes ketamine troches as an adjunct to another antidepressant she is on. She needs to ramp down off that older antidepressant before she starts a new one and the ketamine helps keep depression at bay while she ramps down her dose.

My wife is 5'7" (170cm) and weighs 125 lbs (57kg), and takes 150mg five nights a week. That is about 2.6mg/kg. When she first started taking it the only side effect was on occasion she'd get double vision. Twice in a year she has had a night where it hits hard and she needs me to set with her because the disassociative aspect is unsettling to her. 99% of the time, though, she said it is like being mildly drunk, like after a glass of wine or two, nowhere near k-hole territory.

She has no other experience (recreational or therapeutically) with psychedelics/disassociatives. Perhaps the antidepressant she is taking dampens the effect of the ketamine.

All in all, she is glad to have the antidepressants, but there has been no silver bullet. It is always lurking just below the surface and she is constantly aware/afraid that it will resurface in full force.

[tbalsam]

Five nights a week is quite a lot, she may have some strong tolerance as well. It's a semi-low to moderate dose for pain patients I believe IIRC just a higher dosing rate compared to the median rates that I commonly see.

[snackwalrus]

Five nights a week is extremely frequent, if she does not tone it down she will likely develop moderate to severe bladder problems in the future.

[tbalsam]

There is some promise with NAC and the bladder nightmare that can happen, but yes agreed, those bladder problems can be heinous, and accepting a mildly reduced efficacy in the short term for the trade of being able to maintain this longer term is the risk argument that I think I'd be making here. <3 :))))

[tasty_freeze]

It is a doctor's prescription. You might say that the frequent use has increased her tolerance, but she had no other effects even at the start (other than occasional double vision).

[pcthrowaway]

It's not an absurdly high dose taken orally. I'm not sure how that compares to subcutaneous though

[DontchaKnowit]

Subcutaneous is waaay more bioavailable if I am not mistaken.

Also PSA ket should probably not be taken orally as it will damage your bladder (it always does but I think oral ingestion is worse for this)

[tbalsam]

I wouldn't really honestly recommend it like that, there are too many asterisks to say 'PSA ket should probably not be taken orally '

Oral has the least bioavailability, but unless one is taking dangerous doses what I've heard is it doesn't likely matter. People will lose so much more in the dosing runaway spiral than from administration method -- you're going to reach a stable point either way if you're holding a certain dose, I believe. I've heard oral is less than ideal for trying to maximize dose response time and efficiency for amount-taken, but IM for example even far outstrips oral or nasal (once again, as implied earlier, I only recommend and advocate for appropriately medically prescribed and dosed Ketamine.

Edit: also a bit of a wtf after the fact but who the heck is taking Ketamine subcutaneously? On first blush, that sounds certainly nightmarish compared to any of the other injection methods.

[pcthrowaway]

> Also PSA ket should probably not be taken orally as it will damage your bladder (it always does but I think oral ingestion is worse for this)

I'd like some data to support this.

My understanding is you're going to pee it out (or pee out the waste products from it) one way or another. Oral dosage lasts longer, so theoretically the time it spends entering your bladder is longer, but I don't see why it would be that much of a difference.

The main issue with oral usage is that it's much weaker, you need to take much more for similar effects.

But insufflation damages your nose and sense of smell, so oral is my preferred method.

I've never heard of taking it subcutaneously. I'd plug it long before I'd try that

[DontchaKnowit]

I think I was confusing the word subcutaneaus for intramuscular. My bad.

And yes, the deal is you have to take more orally than any other method. More material = more bladder damage.

[bradly]

The same dosage amount will be very different if IM, IV, nasal spray, or sublingual.