[isityouyesitsme]

OK, 10 years behind EV. It makes sense that it is where it is. Please point out anywhere where anyone says the accomplishments are not remarkable on their own, if you are not comparing them to the thing with 100 years infra behind it.

Now compare that to the seemingly endless number of evangelists who think that 10 years from now is a good time to impose a mandate to kill all new ICE vehicle manufacturing, in spite of EV tech being only 80 years (or 30 years of "modern tech hard push") behind ICE infra.

This is how every conversation about EV goes.

Person A: "look how awesome EV is!"

Person B: "yeah, but it won't work for me based on where I live and the needs I have from a car. It seems foolish to push a mandate for a technology that can't be proven to work how the vast majority of people need it to work."

Person A: "you are being unfair in your comparison!" or "no, you are only imagining those problems!"

[adrianN]

We should kill all EV manufacturing five years ago. Spend the effort instead on building charging infrastructure, bike lanes, and public transport. Used cars are good for another fifteen years or so to cover edge cases where EV adoption is slower, giving us ample time to figure out solutions that don't drive mass extinction.

[quonn]

Bike lanes won‘t change a thing. Those who don‘t bike will mostly not be convinced by a lane. I know this, being born in a rather rural area with plenty of bike lanes. I‘m in favor of building them, but would take any bet that by itself that won‘t make a big difference.

Public transport will also have to be EV based. Trains won‘t cut it in most areas outside cities.

And besides - what you‘re saying is insanely risky. You want to keep going with ICEs for 15 years? This would just push back the necessary transition another decade. We would loose the time we desperately need to make the necessary changes.

[aliswe]

It's not a communist state

[adrianN]

Where did I ask for putting the means of production into the hands of the workers?

[bdlowery]

You will still be able to buy and drive ICE cars. What’s the problem?

[EdwardDiego]

Where does Person B live? In a hut in Siberia?

[isityouyesitsme]

C'mon, you have to purposefully be this obtuse. There's no other way it can happen.

Literally any location in the northern US, especially the more rural and more dense urban, and doubly true if you make under 30k per household person and don't already have a circuit in your garage for an electric oven or electric clothes dryer. I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world.

[defrost]

> I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world.

Well, FWiW the Australian (and New Zealand) standard across the entire country is 240v with (most) internal circuits rated for 10 A .. but a call to an electrician gets you a { 15 | 20 | 25 | 32 } amp circuit pulled from the household breaker box (if high amp circuits weren't added at build time) [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112

In other EV news an Australian state (South Australia) had a net 104.1 per cent wind and solar over seven days (ie produced more renewable energy than total energy used and exported the excess) [2], and in my state "Renewables reach 84 pct share of world’s biggest isolated grid" [3]

[2] https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-incredible-week...

[3] https://reneweconomy.com.au/epic-stuff-renewables-reach-84-p...

So, uhh, we have the infrastructure to charge EV's in isolated rural parts of the country and have had for decades .. increased generation is an issue but we have plans to significantly increase global green hydrogen production and export excess over local demand.

[isityouyesitsme]

Right, so because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?"

My comment specifically mentioned a 2030 or 2035 mandate, which is a US mandate. Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You're not doing the EV group any favors by ignoring the problems people describe that prevent them from buying one, and there is currently no US legislation to enable a mandate in the timeframe it would be required.

[wiretap]

This is also a mandate in Canada for 2035, and I feel like you are being unfair and a little bit snarky to the other commenter (who didn't make the comment about Siberia).

This is actually a larger problem in Canada than the US, and most of the political and policy discussion is in favour of this change.

[isityouyesitsme]

I am not certain the point of this, tbh.

I am discussing the mentality of the opposition in the US and the reasons they cite where the EV solution does not work for them. If your government is committed to making it work by 2035, that's a different matter. The US government has made no such commitment, they only discuss mandates. All of the pain, none of the gain.

[defrost]

> because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?"

No. How did arrive at that conclusion? Did you misread the user names and assume I made that comment?

> Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia?

You made a statement about other places in the world which was false, I gave an example of why it was false. You are now better informed, you're welcome.

[isityouyesitsme]

yes, I misread (or more accurately didn't read) user names. Apologies for that.

But no, what I said was not false. I said that I suspect there are other locations in the world where this is true (meaning northern US isn't the only one), and the reply was that there are locations where it isn't true (Australia).

[kalleboo]

> and don't already have a circuit in your garage for an electric oven or electric clothes dryer. I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world

Only North/Central America and Japan uses ~100V systems. The rest of the planet uses ~200V systems where more wattage in your outlets is standard.

[cesarb]

> Only North/Central America and Japan uses ~100V systems. The rest of the planet uses ~200V systems

Brazil (which is in South America) has many cities using 110V/115V/120V/127V (you can see at https://antigo.aneel.gov.br/tensoes-nominais which voltages are used for a given city). Note that a single city can have both ~110V and ~220V, and sometimes both can be found in the same building, or even in the same room.

[EdwardDiego]

Yep,but I'm assuming that nearly everyone in the Northern US is on the grid. And yep, economic concerns dominate, I get that.

This is where I'd hope a government looking to encourage EVs would step in and help, if they're trying to make things happen before 2035.

E.g., in my area, the regional council has a scheme where home owners can get a very low interest (or even no interest) loan to install good insulation, and you can also get another one to install a heat-pump.

They're run through banks, but backed by the regional (and maybe central?) government.

But, doing something like this will, initially, only subsidise the people who can already afford to buy an electric vehicle.

TL;DR - it used to be that you couldn't refuel your car unless the servants brought more on horses, as the only service stations focused on oats. But we invested in infrastructure.

[msrenee]

In a little under half the US. We get at least a couple days a year where the wind-chill brings the temp below -40F with a thermometer temp of -5 or less as a high for the day. My gas car hasn't been happy about starting the last week. Two years ago, I was working 2nd shift and only had the diesel truck. Got to work fine, got off at 2 PM and even with winter blend and a bottle of Heat in the tank, the fuel gelled and tore up the fuel filters.

This is not an artic circle problem. This is a problem that affects way more of the world than you seem to realize. Sorry that we don't all live in mild climates.

[EdwardDiego]

> where the wind-chill brings the temp below -40F

I'm unsure why wind-chill is relevant to a car being charged in a garage?

> This is a problem that affects way more of the world than you seem to realize.

The original commenter was stating that EVs were entirely unsuitable for a hypothetical person.

The only way that it I can envisage it being entirely unsuitable is if they had no access to grid electricity.

My comment about a hut in Siberia is based on that.

Yes, some Americans might need to upgrade certain circuits, but that's not an blocker, it's just an implementation detail.

I'm very well aware of how cold it can get in the USA, but that doesn't prevent EV use, it just requires investment in infrastructure, and that's an investment I'd hope a smart government would subsidise if it's serious about reducing emissions.

[msrenee]

Everyone doesn't have a garage. If your infrastructure has the chargers on the street, we're back to the original issue where they don't charge well in the cold.

[StanislavPetrov]

Half of the United States feels like a hut in Siberia right now due to freezing temperatures and the lack of electrical capacity.

https://www.fox29.com/news/pennsylvania-warned-of-rolling-bl...