[wwweston]

This is a fair illustration of some failure modes for that choice.

I took the other road: during my 20s and early 30s I spent a lot of time chasing meaning while minimizing expenses and the time I put into jobs and other explicitly career-focused choices (although tech-related stuff turned out to be one of my forms of play & exploration, and I did do the startup thing a time or two). Can't say I outright regret this because I do think I exercised a lot of important personal capacities and gained some insights, but at one point I did look around and realize my place in society was effectively "economically marginalized software developer" and that was a weird and probably not optimal tradeoff from both a practical or meaningful standpoint, especially considering I had still had a lot of open questions and anxieties about meaning.

So, this path has potential failure modes too.

At that point I made a pretty deliberate choice to more or less "sell out." Years later the upsides appear to have outweighed the down, and I find myself with the suspicion that meaning is found/made wherever you meet life thoughtfully and intentionally, and that if I'd chosen finance in my 20s (or more comp-rewarding tech roles) I'd have had opportunities that were different but not without their own affordances for meaning (and probably a higher net worth).

Still, I like my work and hobbies, and I never feel there's a shortage of interesting and engaging things to pay attention to in the world. I could continue like this for decades if I'm lucky enough to; my most substantial worries are staving off/prepping for whatever decline in health we all eventually face, and with it capacity to engage the world robustly. Perhaps I didn't do so badly after all.

[tdrgabi]

Your comment made me think and see the usual "high paid, sell out" - "low paid, high meaning" dichotomy in a different light. I'll ponder it a bit more.

Thank you and Merry Xmas.

[TedDoesntTalk]

Not everything has to have meaning. In fact, nothing has to have meaning for life to be worth living. It is a delusion we tell ourselves that something must have meaning to be worthwhile.

Having said that, I find value in relationships, not jobs or hobbies or things. Meaning? There is no meaning. Things are as they are. And it’s beautiful.

[coldtea]

Well, "worthwhile" is not a natural state to crave (animals in nature just are, they're not concerned with "worthwhile" or "finding joy in little pleasures" and so on).

So, if you still want life to be "worthwhile", you might as well ask it to be meaningful, it's pretty much the same thing, and meaningless is just another way of saying "not worth it".

Or inversely, "life having a meaning" or a "purpose" doesn't mean getting at an "ultimate understanding of life" or getting the "real meaning of life". Just means finding something meanigful (that makes life meaningful) to you. Somebody for example might find the meaning of life in travelling and getting to see the world, or find meaning in relationships as you said.

[lazide]

Merely being good at what one does, when that is useful to others, is often a good definition for meaning.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I would define that as “helpful” or “useful to society”, not meaningful.

[Godel_unicode]

You don’t feel being useful to society had meaning? I think you might be putting meaning on quite a pedestal.

[TedDoesntTalk]

You can assign meaning to anything. You can assign meaning to a bird passing over your head as you propose to your girlfriend: "it was meant to be."

So sure, there can be meaning in being useful to society. But that's not really my point. My point is that meaning does not need to be a goal. If you hang your life's worth on the meaning you find, I am betting you're going to be disappointed a lot of the time. It doesn't need to be that way. Look beyond meaning for worth and value.

[coldtea]

That kind of work we often call "meaningful work". It's pretty much the same thing.

And it's not just about “helpful” or “useful to society”, it can also be meaningful work if you e.g. can express yourself doing it.

[alar44]

I did the exact same thing. Chased my passion through 30, burnt out, sold out, and am now burnt out on the other side 10 years later. Might sell all my shit and become a carpenter or a framer.

[lazide]

Be aware, burn out is often as much or more about self regulation than it is any specific activity. Being able and willing to say no to mind one’s boundaries being a key skill.

Changing careers can help (the novelty provides rewards), but rarely does whatever underlying thing causing the issue disappear.

[alar44]

I've been thinking about that. The IT industry doesn't lend itself to boundaries very well so I think I'd like a career where work stays at work.

[nikau]

Sure it does - you work 8 hours a day, if you get more tasks to do than time you prioritize and what gets done gets done.

If management want more done they can hire more staff.

Sure you need to find the right company and your yearly compensation might be lower, but your hourly rate will still be around the same and you can have quality of life.

[LouisSayers]

> you work 8 hours a day

Do you really though?

Any problem solving industry is going to have flow over work which is not visible.

Even if you're not physically at work, how many ppl are actually mentally checked out when they leave?

How much work is done in the office and how much is left over for the subconscious to decode for the following day?

It will vary by the types of work you're doing, but being in tech as a whole can be quite mentally draining.

[nikau]

This sounds more like you don't have other fulfilling hobbies to focus on once work finishes for the day, or management is pushing for results so hard that you feel like you need to work off the clock.

The only time I sometimes think of work outside business hours is on bike rides because its otherwise not very mentally stimulating.

[cc101]

LouisSayers: In another post(now closed) you offered help with regard to Sam Ovens consulting accelerator..." Is there a way to discuss with you?

If this reply is offensive, I apologize.

[alar44]

This is where I'm at. The job is to think. You can't frame a house at home in the shower, but you can think about an LDAP solution to get at switches on the other end of a VPN tunnel etc.

[imnotlost]

Mentally check out of work - mentally check into your life and loved ones.

Or eventually get a divorce I guess...

[lazide]

This is the self regulation challenge right here.

[Icathian]

I suspect that no job lends itself to boundaries well, and that a healthy willingness to enforce them is going to be necessary regardless.

[sdwr]

How did you sell out, and practically how did it turn out?

I'm interested in doing the same thing.

[ZhangSWEFAANG]

yeah exactly, as a man, you should focus on increasing your status in society, and through those activities that increase status, you ultimately find meaning.