[TedDoesntTalk]

Not everything has to have meaning. In fact, nothing has to have meaning for life to be worth living. It is a delusion we tell ourselves that something must have meaning to be worthwhile.

Having said that, I find value in relationships, not jobs or hobbies or things. Meaning? There is no meaning. Things are as they are. And it’s beautiful.

[coldtea]

Well, "worthwhile" is not a natural state to crave (animals in nature just are, they're not concerned with "worthwhile" or "finding joy in little pleasures" and so on).

So, if you still want life to be "worthwhile", you might as well ask it to be meaningful, it's pretty much the same thing, and meaningless is just another way of saying "not worth it".

Or inversely, "life having a meaning" or a "purpose" doesn't mean getting at an "ultimate understanding of life" or getting the "real meaning of life". Just means finding something meanigful (that makes life meaningful) to you. Somebody for example might find the meaning of life in travelling and getting to see the world, or find meaning in relationships as you said.

[lazide]

Merely being good at what one does, when that is useful to others, is often a good definition for meaning.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I would define that as “helpful” or “useful to society”, not meaningful.

[Godel_unicode]

You don’t feel being useful to society had meaning? I think you might be putting meaning on quite a pedestal.

[TedDoesntTalk]

You can assign meaning to anything. You can assign meaning to a bird passing over your head as you propose to your girlfriend: "it was meant to be."

So sure, there can be meaning in being useful to society. But that's not really my point. My point is that meaning does not need to be a goal. If you hang your life's worth on the meaning you find, I am betting you're going to be disappointed a lot of the time. It doesn't need to be that way. Look beyond meaning for worth and value.

[coldtea]

>Look beyond meaning for worth and value.

Then what gave your life "worth" and "value" would be what gave it meaning.

You're pretty much saying the same thing, but with different semantics for meaning.

Meaning doesn't necessarily mean to "some big end goal". People use it for anything that they feel makes their life worth it ("gives it meaning"). So "being of help to others" to "enjoying family life and friendships" or "expressing myself through playing the piano" to "religion" can all be said to imply meaning.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I guess we don't agree on the semantics of meaning. For example, the "meaning of life" is not the same as "value of life" or "worth of life".

[tremon]

I think you're using a different interpretation of meaning than other people in the thread. It looks like you're using "meaning" in the sense of "that which hints at a deeper design beyond our own", while others use "meaning" in the sense of "that which brings personal fulfillment".

[lazide]

Is not being useful to others worthwhile and valuable?

[TedDoesntTalk]

Indeed, it is!

[shanebellone]

"Look beyond meaning for worth and value."

Well said.

[Godel_unicode]

That doesn’t mean anything.

[coldtea]

That kind of work we often call "meaningful work". It's pretty much the same thing.

And it's not just about “helpful” or “useful to society”, it can also be meaningful work if you e.g. can express yourself doing it.