[Shared404]

It continues to drive the narrative that trans people are invalid, and also has knock-on effects for every trans person who reads that post.

> just in case they feel a bit sad if they happen to hear it

I recommend you read that source I provided again.

E: And a couple others -

https://mentalhealthcommission.ca/resource/transgender-peopl...

https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ Good paper, but here's a sentence from the conclusion. > Findings underscore the importance of risk factors such as emotional neglect within the family, interpersonal microaggressions, and internalized self-stigma

In addition, what reason do you have to not respect a trans persons identity? Biological sex is already much _much_ more complex than just the XY we're taught in middle school. Klinefelter's and intersex people both exist, as do other blurred lines.

There's also nothing inherent about 'sex == gender' - transgender people have existed throughout history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

Now then, unless you provide actually interesting input we're done here until you come back with your main :).

[bennies4gronjd]

So everyone just has to lie and pretend, just to make trans people feel better? Push down their own beliefs and feelings in case someone who thinks they are the opposite sex reads anything that may be critical of this?

As a more concrete counterpoint, here's a news article from last year which includes a lesbian woman describing her rape by a man who calls himself a woman: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

The editors decided to replace the male pronouns she used to describe him with "they" and "them":

> Another reported a trans woman physically forcing her to have sex after they went on a date.

> "[They] threatened to out me as a terf and risk my job if I refused to sleep with [them]," she wrote. "I was too young to argue and had been brainwashed by queer theory so [they were] a 'woman' even if every fibre of my being was screaming throughout so I agreed to go home with [them]. [They] used physical force when I changed my mind upon seeing [their] penis and raped me."

How do you think she must have felt reading this truthful quote of hers mangled into a lie? A rape victim who isn't permitted to have her rape accurately reported, after she had already been shamed into getting into bed with this man by him weaponising the same ideology that censors her now.

Was she guilty of hate speech by describing her own rape?

I read your source by the way, it's very one-sided, and mostly irrelevant to the conversation about speech.

[Shared404]

One trans woman being a scumbag piece of trash

A) Doesn't make her not a woman

B) Doesn't make all trans people scumbags.

I understand the position of the lesbian woman in that story - she is justified in anger, hate and fear, as sad as it is to say.

You're allowed to not be attracted to someone, and trans individuals have to accept that sometimes relationships may not work out as a result of their being trans - it's just a sad but true fact.

> Push down their own beliefs and feelings in case someone who thinks they are the opposite sex reads anything that may be critical of this?

Isn't the quote "facts don't care about your feelings"? All serious modern research points to trans individuals being valid.

> I read your source by the way, it's very one-sided, and mostly irrelevant to the conversation about speech.

You asked how speech leads to harm, I provided an example. I've also uploaded more since then.

[bennies4gronjd]

You've missed the point, this about people not being permitted to say the truth, per this ideology.

Even a rape victim isn't allowed to say that a man raped her, despite him forcing his penis inside of her. Is she supposed to pretend that this is a "woman's penis" or something?

That was an extreme example used to illustrate. The other examples elsewhere in this thread include a man taking an accolade that would usually be reserved for women, and a man going around being creepy to women who provide genital waxing services to other women.

If critics aren't allowed to push aside the gender ideology for a minute and discuss these males as men, it entirely undermines any point they're making about women's boundaries being encroached upon - which is also a harm, and a significant one.

[Shared404]

Again, biology does not equal gender.

The reason that I responded to your previous post was the importance of this extreme example.

Trans men are men. Trans women are women.

The research supports this.

Scumbags are scumbags, regardless of gender or trans status. Some of the people you listed are scumbags, and one was a woman receiving an award for women.

If you're going to dissolve into whataboutisms, we're done here.

[bennies4gronjd]

> Trans men are men. Trans women are women.

This is an ideological belief. We can also accurately describe them as women who want to be men, and men who want to be women.

Of the three examples we're discussing:

* one raped a woman using his penis - this is what men do, not women

* one tried to get women to touch his male genitals - again, the behavior of a man

* one received an accolade as if he's a woman - but spent most of his life making a highly successful career as a man, using his male privilege to its fullest extent

Can you see why people may prefer to refer to these three as men, not women?