[snowwrestler]

If I don’t like what Apple does with iMessage, I can move to WhatsApp. If I don’t like what Apple does with photos, I can move to Google Photos. If I don’t like what Apple does with iCloud, I can move to Dropbox. If I don’t like what Apple does with iOS, I can move to Android.

What am I missing? How am I handcuffed to Apple?

[makeitdouble]

> If I don’t like what Apple does with photos, I can move to Google Photos

I can’t. I don’t use Apple Photos, and I can’t set Google Photos as the default photo handler, nor default source or destination, nor tell any iOS device to never save photos in Apple’s silo.

> If I don’t like what Apple does with iCloud, I can move to Dropbox.

I can’t either. I wanted to backup my phone elsewhere and there is no option outside of iCloud.

How have you hacked your system and how long will you be able to?

[snowwrestler]

To use Google Photos on iPhone: install the Google Photos app and grant it access to your phone's photos. Then you can go into the Google Photos app to see and manage all your photos.

To keep Apple from saving your photos: turn off iCloud Photos, or log out of iCloud.

To back up your iPhone without iCloud: make a local backup on your Mac or PC. You can even encrypt the backup with a password you choose. You can sync these backup files in any way you would like, including via Dropbox.

You can also sell your iPhone and get a different phone if you don't want anything to do with Apple.

[makeitdouble]

You're skirting around the issues, as Apple just won't allow you to get out of their system in the key parts. Any of the alternative you describe are just clunky workarounds with utterly broken parts (local backups through a Mac have severe issues compared to cloud backups)

> You can also sell your iPhone and get a different phone if you don't want anything to do with Apple.

If you come to that conclusion, it's basically the answer to your "How am I handcuffed to Apple?" question. If you need to give up the system to properly manage your backups, it's pretty much a situation where you're handcuffed or not, with no clear negotiable middle ground option.

[smoldesu]

And if you don't like Safari? Gotta sell the whole phone, sorry bud.

[WorldMaker]

I use Firefox just fine on iOS. Sure, it's just user chrome and Firefox Sync, but those are the things I care a lot more about than the rendering engine.

I'd love to support Gecko on mobile too, as I've moved the vast majority of my desktop usage to it, but Webkit is still fighting the Blink/Chromium hegemony, too, and that's still fighting the good fight.

[smoldesu]

> and that's still fighting the good fight

Not if they treat user freedom as their enemy.

[WorldMaker]

I appreciate that you feel that way. I think most users don't care about the details of rendering engines and think user chrome choice (not Google's Chrome specifically; it's stupid Chrome confused pre-existing browser language) is enough. I mostly agree, as I already stated, and I'm okay with the compromise on rendering engine for security and I'm okay with the compromise on rendering engine to keep at least one non-Blink renderer high enough on caniuse usage statistics that I can fight back some in corporate projects that "Chrome is the only browser we need to support" because we have enough iOS using users and many of them are executives. That's a more important fight to me than "user rendering engine freedom". I don't personally need IE6 2.0 "Chrome is the only supported browser for the next few decades" (whether or not you think Google would declare victory in the same way that Microsoft did and stop innovating on Chrome entirely that very minute that happens), and I don't think the web as a whole needs that either. So I'm with Apple right now on their compromise choices.

I don't expect you to agree with me. I just want you to know it is a perspective of its own merits. The web has seen what happens when one rendering engine gets enough market share to dominate and that had a decade or more of repercussions, especially in enterprise application development. We're so dangerously close to that happening again. You may think you are fighting the most for freedom of the two of us, but from my perspective you are fighting a proxy battle in the Cold War and I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run.

[orangecat]

In the future Chrome might achieve a monopoly, therefore we should give Apple a monopoly on Safari today? If we're doing Cold War metaphors, this sounds like "we had to destroy the village in order to save it".

I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run.

I will have to disagree that freedom is advanced by an OS that forbids you from using software that hasn't been approved by a megacorporation.

[WorldMaker]

Apple's usage of Safari on iOS is much more akin to a monopsony than a monopoly (though we are busting at the edges of the anti-trust analogy). Apple is only the only (allowed) "buyer" of rendering engines on iOS, and so is only buying Apple. So it is a bit of apples and oranges when comparing to potential monopoly where Google is the last supplier remaining for rendering engines.

We're probably all going to keep disagreeing because it is apples and oranges no matter what analogy we try to use. I do think "potential monopoly" is worse than "practical monopsony" (especially when it is a proxy monopsony and people are still free to not buy Apple and thus not buy Apple's rendering engine choice), but you are welcome to continue to disagree. Again, I appreciate why a lot of y'all see the "practical monopsony" as the larger and more immediate threat.

[snowwrestler]

Yes, exactly, I can switch phones. Doesn’t seem like handcuffs to me.

[brokenmachine]

There can be no free or fair market here. The barrier to entry for new companies to enter the phone market is just unbelievably high with all the patents.

Modern human communication, phones, are too important to be held hostage by just two companies, neither of which are acting in consumers best interests.

IMO this is the time that governments should be acting on behalf of the people, and not the corporations with the deepest pockets.

[pixl97]

You seem to miss that you're switching the golden handcuffs for rusty uncomfortable handcuffs with the spikes facing inward.

"It's a free market because I have the choice between two brutal masters!"

[snowwrestler]

I guess we're all wearing the handcuffs of not getting exactly what we want.

[madeofpalk]

Why would someone not like Safari?

There is a Chrome app on iOS. I don't think many people pick their browser based on rendering engine, but rather on actual browser UI and features (like sync).

[smoldesu]

Guess it's a shame I'm one of those people then, all infatuated with silly things like 'options' and 'choice'.

[vbezhenar]

What will you do when Apple would delete Whatsapp from AppStore?

[snowwrestler]

> If I don’t like what Apple does with iOS, I can move to Android.