[orangecat]

In the future Chrome might achieve a monopoly, therefore we should give Apple a monopoly on Safari today? If we're doing Cold War metaphors, this sounds like "we had to destroy the village in order to save it".

I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run.

I will have to disagree that freedom is advanced by an OS that forbids you from using software that hasn't been approved by a megacorporation.

[WorldMaker]

Apple's usage of Safari on iOS is much more akin to a monopsony than a monopoly (though we are busting at the edges of the anti-trust analogy). Apple is only the only (allowed) "buyer" of rendering engines on iOS, and so is only buying Apple. So it is a bit of apples and oranges when comparing to potential monopoly where Google is the last supplier remaining for rendering engines.

We're probably all going to keep disagreeing because it is apples and oranges no matter what analogy we try to use. I do think "potential monopoly" is worse than "practical monopsony" (especially when it is a proxy monopsony and people are still free to not buy Apple and thus not buy Apple's rendering engine choice), but you are welcome to continue to disagree. Again, I appreciate why a lot of y'all see the "practical monopsony" as the larger and more immediate threat.

[smoldesu]

Whatever you label it, it's an arbitrary limitation of technical capabilities that is done for the user without asking them. You can backpedal as far as you'd like, but you can't apologize away the fact that the user should have more power over their iPhone than Apple does. That shouldn't be contentious on a site called 'Hacker News'.

[WorldMaker]

I'm not backpedaling, I stand by my opinion that "this isn't a technical user choice that matters to many users (including me)". That's the first thing that I said on the subject, and that's what I've been sticking to. I don't know why my opinion is upsetting you so much, but consider toning things down a bit before they get personal or hurtful?

What may sound like "backpedaling" is that I am admitting sympathy for your concern, despite disagreeing with it. I think you've made good points. I don't find anything "contentious" about it. I still disagree with you, and I'm not apologizing for disagreeing with you. I can understand your points just fine, and also still disagree with them. I would like you to consider my point of view, and maybe engage with me on this issue that it is much more complex than a simple "good versus evil". I hope this not to change your mind, but in the hopes of a better overall discussion than just "Apple is evil and doing evil things because Freedoms". The reality is not that simple. I don't blame you for thinking it is, and you are free to continue to do so, just don't yell at me for saying "well I think it's kind of complicated", please.

[smoldesu]

I'm not yelling at anyone. You're making weasel-y statements, and I'm calling you on them outright. If Apple wants to lead the way in browser development, then they should do so on their own merits. They're welcome to pre-install it on my iPhone, and they can even make it impossible to delete like on Mac. Just don't use it as an excuse to prevent alternative browser engines, it's not a solid argument. The concerns over Javascript engines and JIT compilation was sketchy at best, but I won't stand around and listen to people defend an opportunistic greed magnet for trapping their users.