[monopoliessuck]

The funny thing is no one seems to know how refunds are handled, even within the organization. Talking to customer service is like talking to a guy that bought a Purism shirt and kind of knows the guys that handle the "queue" somewhere out there in the nether. Everyone I speak to at the company has no idea when I'll get it, but they're certain I will... eventually. Apparently I'm on the fast track too and have been for years, which is swell. The irony of all this is I selected the latest Evergreen batch when I funded because I didn't mind waiting. When Purism flirted with the idea of a new model after Evergreen I even inquired about moving my funds there so I'd get peak Librem - I really didn't mind waiting.

When deadlines got missed the third or fourth time I got worried. Then Purism started releasing a few phones to influencers and internal people only and claimed "shipping" I got more worried. I think the only "real" shipping batch was Evergreen ultimately anyway, but when some a few normal customers began explaining they got phones and they were overheating I got more worried. More time passed and the prices started rising to insane levels, transparency had fallen away completely and I still hadn't received my phone I just decided to cut bait. I asked for a refund and was told I would have to wait so wait I did.

> the crowdfunder preorders were never supposed to be refundable

Purism's crowdfunding wasn't traditional crowdfunding. The company exists with other, supposedly profitable, lines. The crowdfunders were supposed to get their devices before Purism started promising Librem USA to new customers. If you have a backlog, you clear the backlog before accepting, promising and shipping new devices to new customers. You don't just sit on the money and hand out IOUs.

Here[0] is the policy in 2020 regarding the crowdfunding campaign refunds.

> If you want to cancel an order for products that are in the process of crowdfunding or pre-order, we will issue a full refund once the crowdfunding/pre-order of the product is completed and all pre-orders are shipped.

This is now missing from Purism's policies. That's after I was told I would have to wait for my line in the queue. You're telling me the backlog up to 2019 is clear so I assume all "pre-orders" are shipped and I'm still handed promises. Since the queue is something mythical and no one, even Purism themselves, can tell me where I am in it, I'm left holding the bag. This is not how you run an "ethical company".

tldr; It's almost 2023 and I do not have either the phone I ordered in 2017 or the refund I filed for years later after a litany of missed deadlines, promises and communications failures.

[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20201127113603/https://puri.sm/p...

[seba_dos1]

The link you provided states:

> If you want to cancel an order for products that are in the process of crowdfunding or pre-order, we will issue a full refund once the crowdfunding/pre-order of the product is completed and all pre-orders are shipped.

Librem 5 pre-orders quite obviously aren't all shipped yet, otherwise you would be able to buy one without waiting in queue and all people who pre-ordered in 2019 or later would already have received their phone.

[monopoliessuck]

So you're telling me that if Purism continues to receive new pre-orders that outstrip their manufacturing capacity, they will indefinitely hold the money they've collected from me thus far since new customers' pre-orders take precedence over my refund? My refund, initiated because of their inability to meet demand in the first place, is now perilously delayed because of their inability to meet demand while they service new customers?

If so, this contradicts what I've been told in emails by Purism staff, the fact that people after me in the queue have received refunds and the fact that this policy in question no longer even exists on their website. It's all super transparent, fair and customer friendly.

[seba_dos1]

The policy that you quoted states that quite literally, I don't understand your question. Even if you only consider pre-orders up to when the shipping has merely started, there are still some left to fulfill. The policy has been changed since and now mentions "when your pre-order is reached in the shipping queue", which is more favorable to customers and AFAIK that's how all requests are being handled now. You have stated yourself that "people after [you] in the queue have received refunds", which wouldn't be possible when sticking to the old policy. There must be something going on with your particular request and it isn't going to be resolved by a software developer writing comments on Hacker News.

[monopoliessuck]

I missed "back" when I grepped the new policies for "crowdfund", Purism changed the verbiage, my apologies. This was their earlier policy I believe, before the one I put up from 2020. There was some waffling as far as I can remember.

In any case, I guess I'll send another email because I think you're right, I should already have gotten a refund. Maybe Purism will agree with us time around. Saying my experience is anomalous doesn't really square with community sentiment. My situation isn't some crazy one-off and I think today Purism is more well known for their shady customer service practices than their open hardware and software. Hang around any of the forums and you'll see more disillusioned Purism fans than happy customers. I certainly didn't pre-order a Linux phone so I could be stuck in customer service limbo five years later divorced from both cash and computer.

Hell, I'd even take a phone if I could get one before they push back deliveries another year or two but I think that may push me into a different queue.