[GutThing]

I have a gut problem. I don't really know what it is. It's been like 4 or 5 years since it started.

Doctors don't seem to know what's going on but basically my stomach acid destroys my throat and I can even feel the acidity in my mouth but I don't have heartburn or any other common symptoms. I've been on omeprazole and other PPI and several more drugs without any improvement.

In all these years it stopped for around 3 weeks when the doctor prescribed me 2 antibiotics and domperidone. Then it went back to "normal". They won't prescribe me antibiotics again because after being tested everything came as negative. Now they basically tell me to take more omeprazole, which doesn't change anything.

All this made me realize that it could be a gut bacteria problem. Maybe the antibiotics killed it which made me improve and then it came back again. Maybe it was due a diet change. My only hope is that more research like this is done in the field and maybe one day I'll feel like a normal person again.

[EarlKing]

A number of studies have found a correlation between changes in the bacterial population of the distal esophagus and the onset of symptoms consistent with gastro-esophageal reflux disease and/or Barrett's Esophagus.[1][2][3][4] Your average practitioner doesn't necessarily keep up with trade journals, so it's unlikely most of them have any idea this is even a possibility.

What likely happened is as follows: Taking antibiotics that wipe out the comensal population of Streptococcus Mitis (read: oral bacteria) in the process of treating some other ailment created an opportunity for an invasive species to colonize your distal esophagus, thus leading to your observed symptoms. Subsequent application of additional antibiotics led to a temporary reprieve of your symptoms by virtue of partially (or even fully) wiping out the invasive species... only for them to subsequently recolonize your esophagus when no S. Mitis appeared to recolonize the area.

Prognosis: shrug Unless and until medical practitioners become aware of this correlation there's not a hell of a lot to be done. Ultimately, however, the solution would be to obliterate the invasive species with suitable antibiotics and then recolonize the area with S. Mitis or some other suitable species.

-- [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16437628/

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23496929

[3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15104362/

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4120752/

[cozos]

This is awesome! Do you happen to know anything about IBS-C that hasn't made it to medical practicioners?

[manmal]

Have you checked out butyrate? There are some sodium butyrate supplements on the market. And a Japanese probiotic with Clostridium butyricum which produces butyrate. Certain cells in the gut derive 70% of their energy (ATP) from butyrate. Butyrate deficiency => weak gut cells => inflammation + permeable gut lining.

„Protective Mechanisms of Butyrate on Inflammatory Bowel Disease“: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30277149/

[cozos]

I actually haven't heard about this, will definitely give it a shot, thanks! Where do you usually find information about this?

[manmal]

IMO /r/microbiome is a great resource. Reddit in general, eg the nootropics subreddit is a treasure trove also. You could also search for „ameliorates [insert problem] pubmed“ or „[problem] [potential solution] pubmed“ in the search engine of your choice, and if an abstract piques your interest, view the full paper on sci-hub.

One thing I‘d like to stress is that the internet is full of scams and counterfeit products, and you can only be (pretty) sure a supplement is legit if you order it directly from the manufacturer. I think iHerb also has really good quality control, FWIW. Patented extracts are IME also preferable over run of the mill extracts, some of them are orders of magnitude more effective.

[EarlKing]

Not really, no. Biology and medicine aren't really my field, and it's largely coincidence that I happen to know as much as I do about acid reflux disease.

[GutThing]

Thank you.

[dombesz]

I suggest you to find a good gastroenterologist who is familiar with gut flora restoration treatments. My dad had this reflux issue for ~10 years, and we are both on a 1 year low fodmap diet combined with probiotics treatment. I have to say this is the best improvement that happened in our lives. I was bloated and had digestion issues from a young age that followed me, but now that is gone. No bloating, and no digestion issues at all. Doc says, the gut new gut flora will get strong within 1 year and then we can resume eating everything.

[samingrassia]

What you are describing is LPR/respiratory reflux/silent reflux. It’s likely caused by diet, stress and posture that causes issues with the lower esophageal sphincter and unlikely to be bacterial overgrowth.

Check this whole blog out if you can: https://jamiekoufman.com/silent-reflux-silent-night/

[rendaw]

That's a fairly low quality med-spam internet article, like

> so take the quiz below. If your total score is 15 or more, there’s a 90+% chance you have LPR reflux.

with no quiz. It doesn't mention anything about posture, stress, or the lower esophageal. It seems like a new catch all stomach disease, much like the old catch all stomach disease.

And despite this, you assert that it must be LPR?

[GutThing]

I didn't find the quiz there but it looks like there's a standard test for LPR where if your score is 13-15 or above means you probably have it.

I've done it and being "reasonable" and not exaggerating on my answers, my score is 20, so it could be it. Symptoms are there and there's no heartburn or typical reflux.

In any case it looks like I'm doomed.

[GutThing]

Thank you.

I'll read more about LPR.

[jamestdsmith]

Really sorry to hear your story.

I spend 2.5 years diagnosed with acid reflux due to waking up with a horrible taste in my mouth. It was awful, I’d wake up at 3am every night and could rarely get back to sleep.

After years of tests - they all came up blank. I was then referred to an ENT doctor. Diagnosed a nasal drip issue (mucus dripping down my throat) causing the horrible taste and I was virtually cured in 2 weeks.

[GutThing]

When my GP asked the ENT to see me, he said he wouldn't because this was a gastrointestinal issue.

I'll visit a private doctor to see if they can help me.

[kgc]

What was the cure?

[jamestdsmith]

Sinus rinse 2 x daily (worst thing in the world first time, but after a week, a breeze) + 2 x nasal steroid 'sniff's). - It's not 100% gone, but now completely manageable using this

[Pilottwave]

how was it cured?

[aradox66]

Hope you find some relief! It's frustrating how little is understood about reflux type symptoms.

Can you explain why you say you don't have heartburn? It sounds like you're describing canonical heartburn symptoms.

[GutThing]

I know how heartburn feels, it's not that.

Some smoothies do give me heartburn most of the time. When I had my Esophageal pHmetry doctors told me to eat/drink anything that caused me heartburn and I did. I drank 3 berry smoothies, which usually makes me feel like I could spit fire, and my stomach handled it well. The pHmetry didn't show any spikes in acidity, everything was normal.

[atombender]

I also have GERD without many symptoms. Have you done an upper endoscopy, a barium swallow, and been tested for _H. Pylori_?

I did all of it, which showed mild damage to my esophagus, as well as some signs of stomach inflammation, which I thought was interesting. The radiologist said "everything is just coming right back up" and told me I had severe GERD. Negative for _H. Pylori_.

PPIs (lansaprazole, omeprazole) appeared to do nothing, so I stopped, given that the long-term health risks are negative.

Interesting that you think gut bacteria are related. In medical terms the gut refers to the intestines, not the stomach. I assume you mean stomach bacteria here. There's apparently not a lot that can survive the environment of the stomach, but strep bacteria can.

I recently read that getting more fiber in one's diet can help GERD.

[GutThing]

I had an endoscopy, yes. They said my cardia was always open but that's not usually the cause for my symptoms and even if that was the problem, all the PPI I took would make me feel better.

I've been tested for H. Pylori a couple times, both negative.

I also had a manometry and pHmetry. Esophagus is working well and acidity seems normal.

A part of me feels like it's a lost cause maybe that's why when I see something about stomach/gut research I tend to think it's related to my problems.

[sanjayio]

Hoping you get well soon and figure this out. Have you heard of the inter abdominal pressure theory for acid reflux, which you’re describing or a theory like Chris Kresser’s?

https://chriskresser.com/how-to-cure-gerd-without-medication...

It’s a fantastic write up, that I read through when going through something similar. For me, ultimately it was controlling my weight (I’m at 12% body fat now) and tons of fiber. I feel like my case was mild though.

[GutThing]

Thank you for the link, I'll read it.

I've been told by my doctor that weight matters but I'm a fit guy, around 12-13% body fat, non smoker and rarely drink alcohol.

I also take care of my diet. I cook my own food, don't eat anything processed (maybe once in a while yes, but it's not part of my diet), I drink a lot of water, no sodas.

What do you consider "tons of fiber"? What do you eat in a day to accomplish it?

[jdhendrickson]

Have you been to a dentist recently? This could be related to bacteria from bad teeth being washed into the stomach which in turn over reacts.

[GutThing]

I have no cavities/bad teeth but I don't think that'll last long due the acidity. My last visit at the dentist was a couple months ago.

[treeman79]

I mentioned to a doctor that my weird symptoms stop when I take doxycycline. He declared I had Sjogrens. An autoimmune condition. Says he’s seen that lots of times.

Went and got tested. Doctors told me I was nuts and antibiotics have nothing to do with autoimmune. All results came back positive. Doctors still say nothing related.

[11235813213455]

You can probably do a lot yourself with adjusting your diet and time (simple base: rice, quinoa, potatoes, no need to vary too much, with things guts love like onion, garlic, spinach, all raw, possibly more or less lacto-fermented)

[jjj123]

I have this same thing, but I’m pretty sure it’s just heartburn.

Omeprazole 40mg daily maybe made it a little better, but the different was subtle. What actually cleared it up for me semi-permanently was quitting a stressful job.

[GutThing]

I wish I could say it's stress but it isn't.

I took omeprazole 40mg twice a day (80mg total) for months without noticing any difference. If it's heartburn that should've made a difference.

[lostlogin]

If I get it, it means it means I need to lose 5-10kgs. It’s a depressingly accurate indicator that I’m getting too fat.

[joeman1000]

I have this too. My teeth are being eroded and my tongue is ‘burnt’ all the time. It sucks

[amelius]

Stop drinking coffee for a while. It can upset the GI tract.

[jijojv]

I recommend trying apple cider vinegar https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apple+cider+vin...

[GutThing]

Thank you, but I already did.