[Huh1337]

> Certainly this is not true of Crimea, where people have been independently polled by Western NGOs and the weight of the evidence is they want to be part of Russia.

You mean "a very slightly bigger half of them", right? And that was before all this shit went down and Russians started to mobilize them. I wonder how they feel now, don't you?

> Your thesis is that if Russia won they would murder a substantial %-ge of the population in mobile crematoriums?

Nah, my thesis is that Russia started with it immediately.

[whimsicalism]

> You mean "a very slightly bigger half of them", right?

Closer to 83% but I agree it has probably trended substantially downward in recent months.

> Nah, my thesis is that Russia started with it immediately.

Why didn't they do this mass murder in Crimea or Donetsk once they got effective control?

[Huh1337]

Seems like we just don't know much about what they did there, yet. Let's see how many mass graves are there once Ukraine gets the land back. Are you going to put your money on it being 0? Or maybe they simply planned the genocide for later, you never know with these crazy dictators.

[lovich]

I mean, murdering and cremating isn’t the only bit of genocide. They’ve also bern taking Ukrainian children and adopting them out to Russian families, and filtrating out Ukrainian adults across Russia.

At the beginning and through most of the invasion they Russian stance was that Ukrainians are a fake people and don’t actually exist. If I was getting invaded by a group saying my people weren’t real I probably wouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt that they’d treat me well or let me live if I laid down Armstrong

[whimsicalism]

Clearly denying Ukrainian identity & culture is part of the Russian project here and is linked to forced relocation/adoption.

My question was merely on the claim that Russia desired to murder & cremate some >1% of the Ukrainian population.

[lovich]

It looks like the thread got stuck on a technicality around the cremations. I think I still agree with the initial, wider hypothesis the poster had with

> It was never a question of "no war and survive" VS "die in war" - but "no war, die anyways" VS "war, possibly survive"

Especially if, like most groups of humans as were tribal, the dissolution of your tribe is almost equivalent to not surviving

[whimsicalism]

> Especially if, like most groups of humans as were tribal, the dissolution of your tribe is almost equivalent to not surviving

I view this as dehumanizing. I would rather live and not be an American than die while being an American. I suspect most people are the same.

[lovich]

> I view this as dehumanizing. I would rather live and not be an American than die while being an American. I suspect most people are the same.

Humans are tribal on average. I also suspect that there are >zero groups of which you are a member, that you wouldn’t be willing to make sacrifices for.

It may be the case that you personally are an outlier, but it doesn’t change the group dynamics and we are discussing aggregate group behavior and their in this thread, not specific individuals