[Mikeb85]

All the doublespeak is actually pretty amazing to witness... We're defending Russia but also "liberated" Kherson and Zaporizhzhia... The west is threatening us with nuclear weapons... The regime which came into power in 2014 (nevermind that Poroshenko and that whole group were voted out in a democratic election where Zelenskiy and his party, who were notably more friendly to Russia at first, came to power)...

[AnimalMuppet]

But see, if all of Ukraine is really part of Russia, then it all makes sense. They are "liberating" occupied territory, and "defending" Russia itself.

If. But that's a psychological point in Putin's mind, not a reality in the real world. We're at the point where the pathologies of one man are driving this war.

[pupppet]

Even that spin doesn't really work, who threatens to nuke their own territory?

[Garvi]

What's actually amazing to witness is an A-list Hollywood director making a documentary on the CIA financing of neo-nazi groups inside Ukraine and their involvement in the killing of Donbass civillians in the civil war now raging for over 8 years and being censored so effectively, few US citizen seem to know about it.

Another fact I find amazing is the maidan revolution being televised for weeks across the globe on all major news channels, with prominent EU leaders traveling to Kyiv and holding speeches to the crowds. One of those was Angela Merkel and hundreds of millions must have seen it. Today this fact is considered Russian propaganda and apparently never happened. Anyone watched the news 6 years ago and isn't afraid of being downvoted on an internet forum? Remember Merkel's "Right to be forgotten" act? Guess what she used it on.

I came to this forum expecting a higher level of conversation than the horror I've witnessed on reddit. Instead I see outrage over "Russia support everywhere" in a thread where literally 1 heavily downvoted comment was not making fun of Russians(at the time of writing of course). I question the sincerity of people behind such comments. We all know psyops exist, but apparently never in our neighborhoods. Another theory is it's just trolling, which is basically a modern version of wife-beating. "Husband comes home from work frustrated where he was taking insults all day from an abusive boss and takes it out on his wife." vs. "Modern internet user is put down by society/boss/wife and takes it out on strangers on the internet." This whole propaganda shit-fest is playing right in the hands of abusers. My father used to say "come war, the bastards move up in society".

And for gods sake, can someone tell me what percentage of the global production is weapons manufacturing? One used to be able to find that piece of information, but not anymore.

[secabeen]

If you are making claims about suppressed media, why not include links to said media or information about them? Some might be interested in the documentary or the speech you mentioned.

[Garvi]

Fully intentional. As well as not mentioning the name of the prominent Hollywood director. If you're too afraid to google it, the 1984 comments in this thread bashing Russia will create their own gravity well from the irony displayed. Am a EU citizen, a communicologist and programmer.

[The_Stone]

If it's censored so effectively, how do you expect people to find it via googling based on vague allusions? If you believe this is so important, why be so vague in the first place? This is not how speaking in good faith looks.

[philipkglass]

I think that I recognize the parent's allusion. The film is Ukraine on Fire, directed by Igor Lopatonok.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_on_Fire

The executive producer (better known for his work as a director) was Oliver Stone. You can buy it on DVD from several major retailers or pay to get it instantly via streaming on Amazon Prime.

The reason "few US citizen seem to know about it" is probably because most US citizens don't watch political documentaries.

[The_Stone]

Thank you. I'd agree with that presumption. It should also be clear that events in Ukraine have definitely evolved since 2016. Reception seems to imply that multiple sources dismissed the film as Russian propaganda at the time as well. Of course I can't say that for myself without watching it, but I'm noting it as significant.

[Garvi]

How else am I to demonstrate that the information has been removed clean from the internet? If that makes me a bad actor in your opinion, in my opinion you have your reasoning screwed up somewhere, because I'm not following that logic at all. Please refrain from such redditish personal attacks. If you want to aggravate me, disprove my points. Unfortunately I'd more likely thank you than being mad in that case. If you're actually into making people mad, you should stick to reddit.

I don't think there's a single person on this forum that's not an ace at googling. So I take it you didn't google it for other reasons. Which is also a point I'm making and has been additionally explained in the post you're replying to.

[The_Stone]

I did attempt to search it based on the information you provided, but unfortunately couldn't find anything particularly relevant when I can't search in reference to the A-list Hollywood director you're alluding to and with any searches about Ukraine optimizing to being about the war with Russia which is obviously at the forefront of results.

You are being needlessly obtuse in your responses and in providing any clarifying information, which is either acting in bad faith or arrogance. If you believe me calling that out as such is a personal attack, then I suggest you provide sources so your points actually can be accessed and addressed.

[bartimus]

I hope you're not talking about that propaganda piece from Oliver Stone? One time I spoke with a dog. It told me humans are pretty low level for not understanding the importance chasing balls.

[Mikeb85]

Again though, Zelenskiy's government isn't the post-Maidan government.

It's not 2014 any more...

[Garvi]

True. He ran for office on the promise to stop the civil war in the east and enact the Minsk agreement. Instead the shelling intensified.

What's sad is up to two months ago there were UN observers in the area, publishing all their observations daily in an open public online database. If one so chooses, one can read up on the intensified shelling of the Donbass regions leading up to Russias intervention. Took me seconds to find the first time. Up to 1000 artillery explosions per day counted by international observers and published online. Go on. We're in the information age, with all that information available to us, yet no one seems to know anything concrete or where to find it. Why is that?

[trasz]

There's plenty of concrete information - like the fact that this is an artificial conflict manufactured by Russia, and it's perfectly normal to use artillery to fight enemy combatants - but you're ignoring it, because it doesn't fit your story which (I'm sure this is a pure coincidence) matches Russian propaganda. Same with alleged escalation, whereas the numbers show the exact opposite: the total number of people killed was less than those murdered by Russian nazis in Bucha alone.

[Garvi]

Can I get a source on the Russian nazi claim? It's the silliest of the claims you made and if you present a shred of evidence for it I'll reevaluate everything.

[trasz]

Oh, I’m sorry, me calling nationalistic genocide perpetrators “Nazis” was just a rhetorical figure here.

As for literal Russian Nazis: https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1572972414451027970 for just one example.