[spookthesunset]

> rumors of the end of the pandemic are greatly exaggerated.

Only if people are stupid enough to repeat the last two years of nonsense. Take away all the fear mongering and testing and you probably wouldn't even notice covid was a thing. You'd get sick like you always do and just shrug it off as "that thing that was going around" like we all did in 2019...

[ketralnis]

This is the problem of mostly successfully preventing fires or preparing for floods. "It wasn't that bad" because it was handled, but since that was handled by somebody else it's invisible to you

[spookthesunset]

“If we did it right you’ll never even notice we did a thing” also happens to be an excellent way for any sleazy politician or “expert” to deflect any questioning.

[ketralnis]

It could be but does that happen often? I almost never see sleazy politicians claiming that, it's almost always taking credit for a great economy (that was on a trajectory before they took office) or promising some amazing future thing (that they don't actually do). I can't think of hearing a single "we prepared for this so it wasn't a problem", true or not

[prottog]

It's an unfalsifiable statement, so it needs to be examined with caution.

[somewhereoutth]

Yes how dare the plebs stay home to avoid dying when they should be toiling in the fields and factories so we can continue in the lavish lifestyles to which we've become accustomed.

[prottog]

> how dare the plebs stay home to avoid dying

Covid mortality rates for those in the working age are meh. More people died of accidents than everyone under the age of 55 from Covid.

> so we can continue in the lavish lifestyles to which we've become accustomed

We should just tax the rich instead, which of course is the true source of that lavish lifestyle.

[groby_b]

It is the (#2/#3/#4 depending on study) leading cause of death. We're currently at around ~150K dead/year - about 5 times the average rate of flu, about 3 times a really bad flu year.

It has significantly affected workforce participation, with a large disability burden.

You'd notice. Unless you're somewhat dense.

[conductr]

Not that I like it but, I happen to think it's just a new normal as well and if everyone starts behaving as if it's normal then the impact on global economics when compared to a similar period should be rather normal. Continuing lockdowns and other things that impact supply chains/production are examples of behaving like it's not normal. They will likely continue to some degree despite my opinions.

[groby_b]

Neither deaths nor disability can be wished away by "just behaving as if it's normal".

As for "continuing lockdowns" - most of the western world hasn't had a single actual lockdown. So let's not pretend that's the issue, or a desired approach to the problem.

What is needed is

- data transparency, instead of reduced data collection.

- targeted measures, instead of blanket measures. Utilizing the above data, and focusing on leading indicators, not trailing ones.

- a medical system that actually makes the tools we have available, as opposed to undermining them and pricing them out of range.

- a focus on ventilation.

- a normalization of mask wearing in public indoor settings.

None of those are close to "lockdowns". That's a strawman nobody is asking for.

[conductr]

Sorry I thought this was an economic conversation, I’m not really debating how best to manage the disease at this stage, but if X deaths a year becomes part of the run rate economics should normalize.

> normalization of mask wearing in public indoor settings.

However, I am curious how this is not normalized now? It’s personal choice where I live and nobody blinks twice if you want to wear it. And my state is full of antimaskers. The issue becomes when you expect other people to wear it and they don’t want to.

[groby_b]

I also expect other people to wear pants in public, and if they don't want to, they can stay at home.

There is such a thing as collective responsibility and a social compact.

[conductr]

Oh, I see and think we’re just mincing words then. I think this is much closer to mandatory, law, requiring, etc than “normalization” which to me just means people don’t look at you weird for doing it. It says nothing about an expectation that they should be doing it too.

For example I could care less about someone wearing a mask if they want. I am not staying home for not wearing a mask. If I’m reading you right, you’d want me to stay home. So, we’re pretty far from any type of social compact and IMO have no hope for getting there given so many more people feel much more extreme about it than myself.

Social compact is an agreement and nobody is agreeing on this. Somehow everyone mostly agrees with pants.

Not to make it a personal attack, but I really find it strange how the “extreme measures” cohort of people on Covid and risks are still at it with this type of stuff. The news cycle on Covid is over. The turmoil is still happening but for most people the disease is not a daily concern anymore. They’ve resumed their lives. Are you still hoping things like mandatory masks become a thing? Do you really believe that’s even tenable? On a global scale? I never viewed that as particularly possible given how much cooperation would be required.

[spookthesunset]

You are right. Forcing “non essential” small businesses to close, stopping all events, closing churches, parks, playgrounds, schools, making it illegal to walk on “the dry part of the sand”, disallowing dying people to have visitors, forcing hospitals to stop taking elective surgery, arresting people sitting on benches,etc… these all just ordinary things… right? Definitely not a “lockdown”, right?

What is a lockdown if that isn’t? And how come those “real lockdown” places still have Covid? Or did they not “lockdown” hard enough either? I’m very confused here.

[groby_b]

A lockdown actually keeps you in your home.

And as I explained to you above, nobody except you is in any form talking about lockdowns. Put the strawman down already, it's starting to get worn on the edges.

[foobarian]

You may define lockdown as that if you wish, but what happened in practice starting in 2019 was extremely disruptive, especially before the vaccines came. Bottom line, it will be hard to draw conclusions from comparing metrics between 2019 or 2020 and any other "normal" year.

[somewhereoutth]

and they closed Wendy's too!