[scarface74]

What is the “non proprietary” alternative and why should Apple or it’s users be forced to wait on consensus?

This is the same reason that Apple wasn’t saddled with the horrible PC “standards” before USB became ubiquitous.

Not to mention even today, Bluetooth is a shit show outside of the Apple ecosystem as far as handoff an ease of pairing.

[semi-extrinsic]

> Not to mention even today, Bluetooth is a shit show outside of the Apple ecosystem as far as handoff an ease of pairing.

I see people mention this, and I don't get it. I have a bunch of el cheapo Bluetooth audio adapters (car/garage/bathroom), one Bose headset, one Jabra headset, one chi-fi headset, one JBL speaker. They just work.

Very occasionally on my Android phone I have to pull down the system tray, click the little arrow next to Bluetooth and select the device I want. But in those few ambiguous situations there is no tech apart from clairvoyance that would allow the phone to know my intentions without my input.

[tpmoney]

Are you using multiple devices with each bluetooth product, or are you using multiple bluetooth products with a single device? In my experience the latter is mostly the same across Apple and non-apple. Where Apple's experience seems to be noticeably better is using an apple bluetooth product with multiple devices.

For example, I recently tried to switch from some airpods to a pair of Anker liberty earbuds. I have 4 devices that I regularly use the headset with, an iPhone, an iPad a macbook air and a work laptop. The airpods switch almost without any effort on my part between my personal devices, connecting automatically to whichever of the devices I am currently interacting with when I take them out. On the occasions when that doesn't happen, selecting them from the bluetooth menu connects them without issue. For my work laptop, because it's not registered with my personal accounts, the airpods don't connect automatically but after pairing them once during the initial setup, when I select them in the menu, they connect reliably and quickly.

By contrast the anker earbuds apparently are only able to store connection information for two devices at a time. While I can pair them to all 4 devices, when I take them out, they will always connect to whatever the last device they were connected to, and if I connect from the bluetooth menu/settings on the device, they will only connect to the second to last device they were connected to. For the other devices, they will attempt to connect and eventually timeout. Even though the device still has the earbuds registered, the only way to connect it to device 3 or 4 is to delete it from the device, and go through the entire re-pairing process, at which point the earbuds will stop connecting to what is now the 3rd to last device they were connected to.

[drewg123]

That's odd. I have a pair of airpods pro shared with an m1 mbp, and an iphone. The airpods seem to randomly connect to 1 of the 2 devices, almost never the one I want them to connect to. This is the same experience I've had with other BT devices.

The only good BT experience I've had is my Bose QC35ii headphones, which can connect to multiple devices at the same time.

[scarface74]

Seems kind of limited and you have to use the “Bose app” for complete functionality. Are there apps for the Apple Watch? My AppleTV? And I still have to pair them to each device and they only switch between the “two most recent devices”.

[scarface74]

I have a Mac, an iPad, an iPhone, an AppleTV and an Apple Watch.

If I’m on my iPad and playing something and put my AirPods Pro in my ear, sound automatically gets sent to my AirPods. The same happens with my Mac and iPhone. It doesn’t happen with the AppleTV since multiple people might be watching.

Also once I pair my headphones to one device on my account, it’s automatically paired to all of my devices. The initial pairing process for my phone and iPad is just open the case the first time and a pop up shows up.

On the other hand, if I’m on my iPad watching a movie and get a call on my phone, it switches over automatically. It then switches back when I go back to my iPad. If I take one AirPod out of my ear to gear someone, video pauses automatically on whichever device I’m using.

Then there are the little touches like being able to control headphone options like noise cancellation and special audio from my phone, iPad, or TV, seeing battery remaining and automatically being registered with Find My.

[doikor]

> If I’m on my iPad and playing something and put my AirPods Pro in my ear, sound automatically gets sent to my AirPods.

And for me apple decides to do these switches on its own without my input at times when I do not want this to happen. I have not found a way to disable this yet.

[cebert]

This is really annoying in a family household. I use my AirPods connected to my phone when I am cleaning the house, cutting the grass outside etc. My son and daughter love to watch videos on the iPad. My AirPods randomly switch to the videos they’re playing on the iPad without me ever asking for that to happen. It irritates me that Apple does this.

[peyton]

You can disable this feature on just your iPad from the Bluetooth settings.

[jshzglr]

Can’t you just make a separate profile on the iPad for your kids.

[aaaaaaaaaaab]

What kind of videos are they watching?

[cebert]

Mostly video game walkthroughs on Hobby Kids TV.

[scarface74]

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212204

But is there ever a time that you said “I really wish I had to pair my headphones to each of my devices individually and had to adjust settings by clicking on a button on my headphones and decipher the various beeps”?

[semi-extrinsic]

I get the same on Android on almost all those things. The only thing I don't have is whatever "Find My" is. For controlling headphone options I have a couple of dedicated apps on my phone, but if you have to touch that more than once per month it's a clear symptom of bad headphone design. (For example the Jabra headset I use at work has a dedicated physical button for toggling noise canceling.)

The upshot is that I suffer zero vendor lockin. I bought Airpod equivalents from Aliexpress, the FIIL T1 Lite for $35. They are little marvels of Chinese engineering that do everything I need and actually sound great - they frequently outperform $100+ earbuds both in reviews on blogs and according to casual Reddit commentary. Since I only use them when out and about, it's not possible to experience any audio quality upgrade unless I sacrifice practicality and go with some closed-back over-the-ear cans.

[scarface74]

You get almost the same thing as long as you use third party apps, still have to change settings manually, etc? Do you also have to install the same app on your phone, tablet, watch, streaming device and your computer?

When you pair to one device, do they automatically pair to all of your devices?

All Apple headphones work as standard BT headphones on non Apple devices. I fail to see any “vendor” lock in.

As far as price, you can also pick up a pair of $50 Beat Flex headphones that have most of the same functionality with Apple devices.

I assure you those $35 “AirPod equivalents” don’t have the noise cancellation, spatial audio, transparency mode, or microphone quality that the AirPods Pro have.

[smoldesu]

I get the same thing out-of-the-box. I get tap-to-pair, noise cancellation, spatial audio, transparency mode and a better microphone than the Airpods (can use a higher-quality codec than AAC). Settings stay on-device, too.

Airpods were a neat party trick maybe... 5 years ago? Wireless audio isn't complicated nowadays though, I've tried at least a dozen Bluetooth headsets that embarrass the Airpods Pro (often at a lower price point).

The last thing I want to do is stop people from buying overpriced headphones though. If Airpods make you happy, then by all means, buy them. You're mostly paying a premium for iCloud integration though, which I'd frankly pay extra to avoid.

Shit though, if you want proof that Airpods are a downgrade from regular headphones, just compare the audio quality: https://youtu.be/N6Y_Q7RYmmY?t=360

[scarface74]

You can pair your headphones seamlessly to seven devices without unpairing? Yes I have a phone, tablet, watch, computer and two AppleTVs - one in the bedroom and one in my home gym.

[semi-extrinsic]

I only have to use a third party app to change the settings on the headset (like equalizer and noise canceling level). For my devices I have no need to change these more than a couple of times per year, at most. For my Bose QC35 I think I've never touched the app after first configuration. Those settings are stored in the headset, so once I've set them they stay the same regardless what device the audio streams from.

The vendor lock-in is by definition there if there are any special Apple features. If there is no vendor lock-in, there is neither any special Apple-exclusive magic features that justify the price premium?

I know my FIIL buds don't have active noise canceling. They are IEMs and give about 20 dB passive noise reduction which is more than enough. The microphone quality is decent, but for any longer calls I use my Jabra which has a proper mic.

[etchasketch]

> The vendor lock-in is by definition there if there are any special Apple features.

This is ridiculous. Then no manufacturer, weather it be cars, or clothing, or industrial equipment would offer anything different than their competitors, lest it be deemed "vendor lock in".

[viraptor]

One of the non-extreme solutions is publishing the doc for the extension + explicit usage grant on any related patents. They don't need to go full standardisation route before the first release. It would still be a proprietary extension under their control, but not a haha-screw-you proprietary.

[aseipp]

ARM literally doesn't allow public instruction set extensions by compliant license holders. Apple is presumably only allowed to do this precisely because they do not sell or otherwise offer their CPUs with any other software, with any other documentation, which hides this implementation detail entirely from all users, and I assume this allowance is worked directly into their specific ARM Architecture License.

Apple themselves designed probably half (or more) of the ARMv8 standard themselves. I assume they are pretty aware of what avenues are available to them in this case.

[samwillis]

Apple are religious about interoperability within their platform, making it easy and reliable. If they were to do as you suggested with some of their proprietary tech, there will be products that implement it badly. To the user they would have no idea who’s at fault, and would probably blame the tech in general, damaging Apple.

Standardisation, in combination with certification to use the “label”, ensures that people developing on top of their innovation do so well enough that it doesn’t damage the brand.

(Somewhat less relevant to an instruction set, and not something I particularly agree with)

[stephc_int13]

>interoperability within their platform

Isn't this called an oxymoron?

[samwillis]

Quite right, I should have said “ecosystem” really. And obviously this comment, about Apple in general, was a little off topic as a reply to the parent. I know what I was trying to get at, but didn’t convey it well in this context. Oh well.

[Jcowell]

No I’ve seen platforms where interoperability is non existent but it’s still a platform.

[viraptor]

This doesn't really make sense. There are already systems implementing connections to Apple stuff badly due to lack of documentation. The situation would only improve with the publication. For example we already have most of m1 hardware reverse engineered in Asahi - that's not going away. We've had things like air drop and earbuds charge state RE'd too. We'll get amx libraries as well soon.

[scarface74]

“Apple’s stuff” is there hardware + operating system.

The benefit of buying “Apple stuff” is the integration between their software and hardware ecosystem.

[viraptor]

Yes, and... That seems irrelevant to the point of my post?

[scarface74]

It’s relevant because

> For example we already have most of m1 hardware reverse engineered in Asahi - that's not going away. We've had things like air drop and earbuds charge state RE'd too. We'll get amx libraries as well soon.

You’re trying to use Apple hardware with non Apple software.

If you put Windows on an x86 Mac, do you expect the same experience (or battery life) that you get if you’re running MacOS on an x86 Max?

[stephc_int13]

Apple Bluetooth is not much better than run-of-the-mill Bluetooth, to be fair.

Bluetooth is one of the rare cases where they should have come up with something different and better.

(Just kidding, Bluetooth is an abomination and a very weak protocol)

[vbezhenar]

Apple did not even bothered to implement proper codec support for their flagship airpods. When I enable mic, audio quality goes to zero. Where's their proprietary standards when they're needed?

[pohl]

Isn't that more of a bluetooth issue? You're switching from one audio stream to two. Each now has only half the available bandwidth, at most.

[vbezhenar]

That's bluetooth issue indeed but Apple could have implemented some proprietary extensions when both devices are Apple ones.

[pohl]

I see. So they're damned if they embrace a standard, and they're damned when they don't.

[Reason077]

Wow, Apple's own headphones have that issue as well? I thought it was just my Sonys that did that!

[gruez]

That's the case for all bluetooth headphones. The reason is that when microphones are enabled, the codec gets downgraded to some crappy one (presumably to free up bandwidth because there are two audio streams?).

[Reason077]

The issue isn't really bandwidth - it's about the host and device agreeing on a suitable codec.

On a Mac, my Sony headphones will fall back to the SBC codec if the mic is active. Fine for voice, but music/video/gaming sounds terrible. On Android, however, they will negotiate bi-directional AptX or some similar modern codec, so the quality is much better.

[sudosysgen]

Fun fact though, on Linux you can force high-bitrate SBC on almost any headphone to get almost the same result as AptX.

[srrr]

SBC and aptX have the same quality (at the same bit rate). You are most likely talking about SBC XQ and aptX HD: http://soundexpert.org/articles/-/blogs/audio-quality-of-sbc... & https://habr.com/en/post/456182/

[WhyNotHugo]

> Not to mention even today, Bluetooth is a shit show outside of the Apple ecosystem as far as handoff an ease of pairing.

I wish my iPhone's bluetooth worked as well as my Linux laptop. I've no idea why Apple gets so much praise for it's bluetooth, it's not "the worst", but it's not very good either. Is Android really _that_ bad?

[scarface74]

Are you using Apple or Beats headphones? If not, BT is going to suck regardless.

[dang]

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32723422.

[umanwizard]

I agree which is also why I’m very disappointed that the EU is forcing Apple into the absolutely horrible USB-C standard.

People can buy android phones if they want to. Why remove choice?

[tchaffee]

Some things deserve to be standardized. Electrical plugs being a great example. Removing choice is a feature. WiFi standards are another example. It's tough to understand exactly where to draw the line, but making computer cables all standard seems like a worthy goal. I can see a future when any device from displays to external drives to your phone can all use the same cable. That would be a nice feature where removing choice would be the better outcome.

Out of curiosity, what's horrible about the USB-C standard?

[scarface74]

Thought experiment, you pick up a random USB-C cord, now answer a few questions.

How much power can it deliver?

Does it do data and if so, at what speed?

Does it support video over USB and if so, at what resolution?

[kmeisthax]

1. The same or more power than Lightning

2. The same or faster than Lightning

3. Either none or higher quality than Lightning

I don't need to see the specific cord - Lightning only carries USB 2.0 and compressed video streams through a weird proprietary protocol. The base spec for USB-C cables is USB 2 and low-speed charging - i.e. equivalent to Lightning for everything but video out.

The main complaint about USB-C that people have is that there's no consistent labeling for the cheap-o base-spec cables versus the ones that actually have high-speed data lanes in them. This doesn't matter for the USB-C vs. Lightning debate, since charging and data will be the same or better and video requires a special cable or adapter in either case.

[spr93]

As others have pointed out, you're wrong about USB-C's minimum standards.

But more important, markets work best when consumers have good information about what they're buying.

Lightning always works as expected. Give me a Lightning cable and a Lightning port and I know what they'll do. Comparison shopping for a Lightning cable is easy.

But making an educated decision about which USB-C cable to buy requires understanding an increasingly complex matrix. You cannot just look at a USB-C cable or port and know what it is; you've got to parse each device or cable's spec sheet (if you can find one). https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/breaking-down-how-us...

The possibility of lock-in to a proprietary system is one piece of information, but consumers aren't getting screwed by lock in to Lightning connectors. It's easy to find a cheap Lightning cable that performs as expected; it's easy to comparison shop for them on price.

Consumers are, however, wasting a lot of money on USB C cables that don't do what they expect because the USB-C "standards" make it extremely difficult for ordinary consumers to know what they're buying.

[scarface74]

When I first started traveling for work with my MacBook Pro in 2021 and my portable USB C monitor, I would often have the wrong USB C cable and I didn’t know the vagaries of USB C.

I was at one of my company’s sites (I work remotely) and even the IT department didn’t have a “standard” USB C cable that could do 100W power and video over USB.

I ended up ordering one from Amazon - and having it shipped to my company’s office. I work at Amazon (AWS).

[WhyNotHugo]

Much as I like USB-C this is far from accurate.

My JBL speaker will only charge with a USBA -> USBC cable, but not with USBC->USBC.

I've a couple of cables that will charge headphones or other devices, but won't show data devices (like an external SSD, webcam, etc).

I've some cables that won't charge my laptop, however, other cables on the same charger do charge that same laptop.

Maybe some of these devices and cables are non-compliant, but they're what we see in the real world, regardless of what the spec says. USB-C is a mess. I still need distinct USBC cables, and need to remember which ones can charge which devices.

[scarface74]

1. Some USB cables only support power up to 5W

2. Not all USB C cables support data some or power only.

3. But USB C is suppose to be a “standard”. I can’t just assume any USB C cable is going to work with either my portable USB monitor or an iPad Pro that has a USB port

[philistine]

Industry bodies vary in quality; USB-IF is notoriously bad at UX. They focus on providing opportunities to participate in their newest standard. That's why you end up with monstrosities like renaming USB 3.0 to USB 3.1 Gen 1 and adding USB4 2.0 instead of simply calling it USB5, like it should.

Cables and docks, once again to give opportunities to participate to as many players as possible, only have to implement few elements of the standard to be branded.

Apple and Intel basically used the Thunderbolt standard to get rid of this mess. Thunderbolt 3 and 4 are forcing implementation of all the optional elements of USB to be branded. So if you want to have a sane experience with USB-C, stick to TB ports, docks and cables.

[tyrfing]

The superior experience with an Apple branded Lightning cable and charger: 5 watts, USB 2.0 speed, and no. Now that's progress!

[umanwizard]

20 watts, actually.

But anyway, the point isn’t whether lightning is better than USB-C. It’s about whether USB-C is good enough that we want to accept being locked to it for all time. If Apple wants to invent a better connector, they can’t, assuming this European regulation goes through.

[tchaffee]

> for all time.

That's a strawman. Standards evolve and new standards come along. 2G -> 3G -> 4G -> 5G. Well look at that.

> If Apple wants to invent a better connector, they can’t

Not true. If Apple is willing to share, they can invent all they want and propose a new standard.

[tpm]

You are right, but the current topic is standardising on USB-C for power delivery. So in that case only the first question applies. And funnily enough that question is the same for every power cable and plug. Even simple wall plugs and extension cords can burn out if a device draws too much power.

[scarface74]

How is the “current topic” only about power delivery. What happens when I plug my hypothetical iPhone with USB-C using a “standard” USB-C cable into my computer to transfer my 4K video?

What happens today if I pick up any random “standard” USB-C cable and try to charge an iPad Pro 12 inch or any other iPad that has a USB-C port, try to connect it to a video source that a USB source or connect it any USB-C device?

[celsoazevedo]

> What happens when I plug my hypothetical iPhone with USB-C using a “standard” USB-C cable into my computer to transfer my 4K video?

Your phone will charge and you'll be able to transfer your 4K video. Isn't lightning still limited to USB 2 speeds? If so, then it won't be any slow.

USB-C isn't a problem for Macs and iPads that use it, so not sure why it would be a problem on the iPhone.

(I didn't understand your second question.)

[tpm]

What happens today if I pick up any random USB-C and try to charge my non-Apple phone is that it charges, in some cases fast, in others slow. I don't have to carry around a special cable. I would expect the same from Apple, once they implement it. As for the data stuff, I'm sure they will manage somehow.

[tchaffee]

> How is the “current topic” only about power delivery.

Because that's what the law covers. All phone *chargers* must be USB-C compatible. And they must all interoperate. You must be able to buy a phone without the charger, so you can re-use your old one.

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/electrica...

[sebzim4500]

Clearly Apple doesn't think the USB-C standard is so horrible since they are using it everywhere else in their ecosystem.

[scarface74]

And even Apple ships a power only USB C cable that doesn’t support data with their non MagSafe equipped MacBooks.

[scarface74]

I wouldn’t go that far. While I don’t agree with the EU forcing the USB-C “standard”[sic] on private companies, it’s time for Lightning to die. Apple is already moving to USB C on iPads with only the low end iPad still being Lightning.

[cesarb]

> the USB-C “standard”[sic]

There's no reason for scare quotes, USB-C is an official standard. IEC 62680-1-3:2021 (https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/66588) is USB-C, and IEC 62680-1-2:2021 (https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/66589) is USB PD.

[scarface74]

Okay, still the same thought experiment. Pick up a random USB C cable. Now tell me:

How much power can it deliver?

Does it support data and at what speed?

Does it support video over USB C?

If I bought a cheap USB power only 5W cable and got the hypothetical iPhone 15 Pro Max with USB C support that could charge faster with a 20W cable, do 10Gps data transfer and video over USB C, wouldn’t I still end up throwing away the USB C cable I got with the $100 Android phone contributing to eWaste? Isn’t that the entire argument about forcing Apple to support USB C?

What happens when I buy a cheap USB C cord from the convenience store? Will it support “standard USB C”.

[tadfisher]

If that USB-C cable only supported 5W, then it does not meet the spec and must not carry USB-IF branding. At a minimum, USB-C cables must support 20V/3A and optionally support 20V/5A.

I get you on the rest of the issues, because the simplified USB-IF branding (Hi-Speed, SuperSpeed, SuperSpeed+, etc) crucially isn't printed on the cable itself. Moreover, the constant renumbering of the standard means manufacturers often forgo the consumer-facing branding and market devices/cables with the latest standard, which means nothing regarding what capabilities a device/cable supports.

USB-IF needs to be better at enforcement, for sure. In the meantime, I just just Thunderbolt cables for everything that needs advanced capabilities and pack-ins for everything else.

[scarface74]

How do you explain to the average consumer that even though all of these cords have USB C ends;

- the white cord that came with my old MacBook Pro 13 inch

- the little cable that came with my Beats Flex

- the cable that came with my Anker battery.

- any random overpriced USB C cable that you pick up from the convenience store or the bodega.

Are really USB C cables and that none of them support data?

[jsmith45]

Yeah this all is a mess, but if we restrict ourselves to considering only conformant cables then the problem is at least tractable.

All Type-C to Type-C support 60 W power delivery (3A at up to 20V), some support 100 W (5A at up to 20V) but those can no longer be certified, and the new 240W cables must have a certain logo on them that includes 240W clearly visible (and this means these cables can only be conformant if certified). And how much power a Type-C to Type-C cable can handle is completely orthogonal to the data it can transmit.

USB does allow conforming passive cables that only have USB 2.0 lines, which can support any of the voltages. These can often be differentiated from the cables that support USB 3.x/USB4 by way of the cable being surprising thin, but this becomes harder if it supports more than the minimum 60W.

Passive cables that support USB 3.x can vary in the maximum speed they support, which will also impact some alternate modes. If you want to ensure video support on a passive cable, your best option would be looking for a 0.8m or shorter passive cable that says 40Gbps, as those will all support the maximum currently allowed display-port bandwidth over type-c. [1] But all passive cables that include the USB 3.0 wires should support the lower Displayport 1.x alternative modes.

However, to reduce confusion in the future, USB-IF have recently revamped the rules for certified Type-C to Type-C cables. Cables must be marked with a logo that indicates 60W or 240W. If the cable supports 3.x or newer, it will also marked the max supported speed in Gbps as part of that logo. Failure to use the right logo for what your cable supports will result in failed certification.

Users are expected to assume that that any cable that does not specify wattage only supports 60W (since all USB C-to-C cables support that, except the optically isolated ones, which cannot be mistaken for a normal cable). Users are expected to assume passive cables do not support USB 3.0 data at all unless marked with: 1) a speed in Gbps, 2) a bare SuperSpeed logo (implies a max of 10 Gbps [2]) or 3) marked as Thunderbolt 3 (20 Gbps [3] unless a speed is otherwise shown).

Users are presumably expected to assume that active cables only support 5Gbps unless otherwise marked, and won't support any alternative modes (unless otherwise marked) if not marked as 40 Gbps, in which case DP2.0 alternate mode should work (but I'm not sure that display port 1.x modes are guaranteed to work).

Active cables are also where many problems lie especially as they don't always look different from passive cables. Active cables can mostly only support alternate modes that they were explicitly designed to support which for some is none at all. For example Active gen1 or Gen2 cables don't support USB4 at all. Active Thunderbolt 3 gen3 cables can be used for USB4 by some USB4 devices but this is an optional feature, so not all USB devices and hosts will support this.

Footnotes: [1] In theory, such cables should be able to handle DP 2.0 at UHBR 20 (80 Gbps) transfers, since they can reverse the 40Gbps return communication lanes, going from 40Gbps bidirectional to 80Gbps monodirectional. However VESA has not yet standardized that as an option. [2] Since these would probably be gen1 with 5Gbps per lane, and all typeC cables have two lanes in each direction. [3] Thunderbolt 3 implies gen 2, which as 10Gbps per lane, times two lanes in C-to-C cables.

[Tuna-Fish]

How is USB-c horrible?

[strangemonad]

The physical form factor of the “type C” connector is great but that a good example of how broken things are is that anyone can stick that type of connector on pretty much anything - might be usb 1, might just be power delivery, might be usb 3.2, might be real thunderbolt, might be thunderbolt-esque paie framed over usb 3.2 messages, this is before even getting into the wild world of hdmi 1.4 and display port over usb 3. This mess is assuming that the vendor implemented things correctly or is using a compliant controller chip, reality just gets even worse.

A simplistic interpretation:

Because the consortium wanted to get everyone on board, they allow pretty much any part of the spec to not be complied with. In theory there are various profiles the should be adopted but in practice that hasn’t happened.

What happens when I plug in a c-type plug? You just can’t say… and I mean you REALLY just can’t say. Will high power delivery and hdmi work (I’m looking at you broken Nintendo switch usb-c implementation), will you get thunderbolt packets wrapped over usb 3.2? Will you even get high speed? Is the cable active or passive? Will this cable give me high speed data? Will this >3ft cable give me high speed charging or just silently stay at 5v and ~1amp because the resistance on the middle pin is too high on that particular cable.

To placate many vendors who wanted to because to produce cheap crap and flood online stores, many parts of the spec do this all without active protocol handshaking and simply fail silently.

[gruez]

>The physical form factor of the “type C” connector is great

At least for phone charging, I find it worse than lightning. It's way too loose (whereas lightning is snug), and I'm always worried about the plastic bit sticking out on the female side is going to break.

[scarface74]

Before I standardized on the cables below, I had USB-C cables in my laptop bag that:

- were power only up to 100W. But couldn’t do data.

- could do power up to 60W and data at USB2 speeds. But they couldn’t do video over USB-C. I have a USB-C powered portable display that can do power and video directly from my laptop.

- a USB-C cable that can do power, video, and data. But I’m still not sure how much data and power it can deliver.

- a few smaller USB-C cables that came with my Beats headphones and my Anker battery. I don’t know what they can do.

I finally threw away all of my cables besides my MagSafe cable and standardized on these for mobile devices (cheaper and not as thick).

https://a.co/d/7e3gH9u

But these are truly “universal”.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB