[scarface74]

How is the “current topic” only about power delivery. What happens when I plug my hypothetical iPhone with USB-C using a “standard” USB-C cable into my computer to transfer my 4K video?

What happens today if I pick up any random “standard” USB-C cable and try to charge an iPad Pro 12 inch or any other iPad that has a USB-C port, try to connect it to a video source that a USB source or connect it any USB-C device?

[celsoazevedo]

> What happens when I plug my hypothetical iPhone with USB-C using a “standard” USB-C cable into my computer to transfer my 4K video?

Your phone will charge and you'll be able to transfer your 4K video. Isn't lightning still limited to USB 2 speeds? If so, then it won't be any slow.

USB-C isn't a problem for Macs and iPads that use it, so not sure why it would be a problem on the iPhone.

(I didn't understand your second question.)

[scarface74]

Not all USB-C cords support data and those that do support data support data at different speeds. Some USB-C cords support data but don’t support video over USB-C. I travel a lot and soon will be doing the “digital nomad” thing.

I travel with this portable monitor:

https://a.co/d/aFeMMK1

You can plug it into a computer and get video and power with one USB C cable. But you have to have the “right” USB C cable. Video over USB-C is “standardized”. But not all cables support the standard.

Ironically, you can have the same issue today. Some cheap third party Lightning cables don’t support data and they don’t work if I plug up my monitor to my Mac for a third monitor using Duet (I can’t use the Mac built in capability because of an incompatibility with corporate mandated malware).

The iPad Pro should also work with my monitor. But still, you have to have the right “standard” USB C cable. You would have the same problem With a hypothetical future USB C iPhone.

I’m assuming you didn’t know about how some USB C cables don’t support all of the standards. If you didn’t know - someone who posts to HN and I assume knows more about technology than the average person - what chance does the average consumer have or the people making laws to force USB C to be the standard?

That is not meant to be an insult. I thought all USB C cables were the same until two years ago when I got my first modern MacBook for work.

I’m not saying Lightning is better than having a USB C port on the iPhone that supports the maximum power possible on the iPhone, with higher speed data rates and video over USB C. Apple agrees and that’s why almost all iPads now have USB C ports.

But that doesn’t mean that you will just be able to pick up a random USB C cable and it just works.

[gruez]

>Isn't lightning still limited to USB 2 speeds?

It supports USB3

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-us...

[tpm]

What happens today if I pick up any random USB-C and try to charge my non-Apple phone is that it charges, in some cases fast, in others slow. I don't have to carry around a special cable. I would expect the same from Apple, once they implement it. As for the data stuff, I'm sure they will manage somehow.

[scarface74]

Try your definition of “slow” on a iPhone 12 Pro Max using a cord that only delivers power over 5W. Better yet, try charging an iPad 12” Pro (that does have a USB C port) with a USB C cable that can only do 5W. Now try to use that same “standard USB C” cable to charge a 16 inch MacBook Pro.

Of course that standard cable is not guaranteed to support data at all.

So much for a “standard”.

[tpm]

iPhone 12 Pro Max has smaller battery than my 5y old Nokia, so I would not worry about that.

[scarface74]

And how long do you think it would take to charge?

[tchaffee]

> How is the “current topic” only about power delivery.

Because that's what the law covers. All phone *chargers* must be USB-C compatible. And they must all interoperate. You must be able to buy a phone without the charger, so you can re-use your old one.

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/electrica...

[scarface74]

How does that help reduce ewaste if you still don’t force standardization on the type of USB C cable being sold - ie a cable that supports 100W PD, video over USB C, and data? What are the chances that the $100 Android phone is going to come with a cable that supports the “standard”? What are the chances that your random convenience store is going to be selling cords that support “the standard”?

And your quoting the law showing that the government also didn’t know enough to consider all of those questions proves how incompetent the government is at writing laws concerning technology.

[tchaffee]

I answered your question, and now you've moved the goalposts... but I'll answer some more.

> How does that help reduce ewaste if you still don’t force standardization on the type of USB C cable being sold - ie a cable that supports 100W PD, video over USB C, and data?

The vast majority of people don't need that cable. Most people plug their cable into the wall socket (oh dear another government standard!) and recharge their device.

> And your quoting the law showing that the government also didn’t know enough to consider all of those questions proves how incompetent the government is at writing laws concerning technology.

I think this is a competent start. Industry was asked by the EU to self-regulate on this, and industry failed. I'm glad the government stepped in and in a few years I'll be able to grab any random USB-C cable to charge a wide variety of devices. Progress marches on.

In general, the EU has been very successful at writing laws around technology. Look at the mobile phone networks. I can travel anywhere in Europe and it just works. And my roaming charges are also kept lower thanks to laws. Lots of great technology laws out there if you could neutrally assess things instead of always reaching for "government bad".

[scarface74]

Most people would be okay with a 5W cable to power a huge battery on the large iPhones? Try this, plug in a large phone with a cable that only supports 5W and has 20% battery life. Now start a video call using Zoom. Guess how long the your phone will last.

The EU didn’t enforce a law to have an industry standard for cell phones, a private consortium of company’s did.

I’m not “moving text goalposts”. The explicit aim of the EU wanting to enforce a standard was to reduce eWaste. If you have a chord that doesn’t support data, power delivery at an appropriate wattage and video - something that the iPads that have USB C already do and the hypothetical iPhone will, you will still be throwing away cables just like I threw away all of my “standard” USB C cables that came with various devices and got some that supported 100W PD, 10 GBps data and video over USB C.

The 100 section 11 chapter GDPR that did nothing but give the world cookie pop up’s shows the incompetence of EU law makers better than anything.

[tchaffee]

Read the law more carefully. Chargers, cables, and the specified devices must all be interoperable, and they cannot slow down the rate of charging. You seem to be wrongly assuming that the current state of the art will not change with the new laws.

> The EU didn’t enforce a law to have an industry standard for cell phones, a private consortium of company’s did.

You're wrong. I worked in the EU for mobile phone companies helping make them compliant with some EU regulations. Just for example, EU law specified an industry standard for roaming charges. Roaming charges were absurd before the law and different in every country - to the point that everyone feared answering a call while in another EU country. Sometimes companies succeed at good standards without government regulations. Sometimes they fail and the government should step in.

> I’m not “moving text goalposts”.

You did. You asked why the discussion was focused on power. I answered that. Goal achieved. That wasn't good enough for you after you learned why the discussion was focused on power. So you moved the goalposts and came up with a new complaint. That's exactly what moving the goalposts look like.

> The 100 section 11 chapter GDPR that did nothing but give the world cookie pop up’s shows the incompetence of EU law makers better than anything.

You're wrong again. I use those cookie pop-ups to refuse everything but the necessary cookies. That's not "nothing". GDPR has done so much good in protecting our privacy and forcing companies like Google and Facebook to adapt. Excellent.

[scarface74]

Mandating roaming charges is completely different than mandating 4G and 5G protocols.

You keep focusing solely on “charging” when USB C powered phones and iPads that already support USB C also carry data and in the care of the iPad data using the “standard” for video over USB C. Seeing that the EU didn’t mandate any of they shows why the government has no business involved in technical standards.

The “goal” of the EU regulation was to reduce ewaste. The proposed regulation fails because you still have to replace your cable if you want your phone to transfer data.

Google and Facebook didn’t have to adapt their business at all because of the GDPR. You want to see what an effective policy for increasing privacy looks like? One private company - Apple - introduced a pop up that gives users the ability to opt out of tracking and everyone including Facebook that lives or dies by ads announced billions in reduced revenue.